Payment Fees and Conditions
Thread poster: Martha Schwan

Martha Schwan  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 22:39
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Jul 20, 2010

July 20th, 2010.

There is no guarantee whatsoever on the Translator's side that a Payment, that usually takes 30 or more days to be issued, is actually going to be made!!

I still cannot swallow the fact that I first have to deliver a Job done to an Agency, and then they will "decide" If my job is worth being paid or not.

Just recently I spent Saturday and Sunday with a small project for a not known agency located in Argentina. The project manager then told me that she would be sending a P.O. on Monday. Well, Monday passed by and she did not send any P.O.

I looked for this Agency in certain web listings, and nothing is registered. I then, visited the Agency website which is completely without any information, phone number or their address. There are lots of blank spaces.

I now ask myself until when am I going to fight tirelessly to receive payments from Jobs that I have no ga-guarantee at all on my side??

[Edited at 2010-07-20 15:56 GMT]


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Joel Pina Diaz  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 22:39
English to Spanish
+ ...
Still happening Jul 20, 2010

There is a history about this issue and people in the business should be applying different solutions: On my experience a screen and feed back of customer is made before we start any job, no PO, then I state I cannot continue with job. Once PO is received we check all the information, our PO embrace some essential points that can be verifiable, from Ip address, phones, address, Bank or PayPal or other verified accounts and the most important : We ask our customer diplomatically (not all customers) a reverse payment depending their choice 1.50 UDS or Euro (Moneybookers), reimbursable of course. If this is not possible we request a scan office or home service statement to be send to our e-mail box (argument in this cases, scamming and abusive pseudo customers). It is hard at the beginning but it does result 95%. I am in Argentina and I really worry about this issue, allow me to help you in any way in order for you to collect for your performed job, if possible.

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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:39
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
This is your own fault Jul 20, 2010

Sorry, Martha, I am sure this will sound harsh, but this is the truth: this is your own fault.
It seems you started (and delivered) the job, without confirming even the client's basic information (business address, phone number, website etc.) If you are a freelancer, you are running a business, and you should act like that. You are not an employee, you are not at the mercy of agencies, you are running an independent business, with all its freedom, but also with all its risks and responsibilities.

Due diligence is necessary: you should check out the prospective business partners BEFORE you enter into a business relationship with them. There are simple ways to check the basic information, look them up in the phonebook, if they are in-country, call them up, check their website, check whether the address they gave you is a valid address, check if they have a website, check if the email you got came from the same domain (and not a hotmail or yahoo address). Here, on ProZ, you also have the Blue Board, that may help mitigate the risk of fraud, or can give you peace of mind (there are some agencies that are simply slow to respond or to send POs, but they pay all right). If the client looks legit, demand a PO or a signed contract before starting the work (see the ATA model contract for ideas an creating one for yourself), and if it is a new client you can also try asking for a prepayment (the whole or a partial sum). The bigger the prospective job, the more important these details are.

As to this particular case in question, if your only means of contacting them is via email, then do so, a few more times. If they fail to send you a PO, then you can send an invoice without a PO number, just state the title of the document you translated as the job reference. But if they completely disappear, and you can't get a favorable response, then you will have to absorb the loss (chalk it up to experience).

I hope it turns out OK.
Good luck
Katalin

[Edited at 2010-07-21 00:19 GMT]


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imatahan  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 22:39
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Dear Martha Jul 20, 2010

I don't start any job without a PO since they've done it to me.

But even with a PO, we may not receive payment. There is NO guarantee.

It is very simple for an agency not to pay us, just say that they've disliked the job. Nobody controls that. It's confidence in the business relationship. Nothing else.

Like two months ago, I've done some IT translations to a Brazilian interpreter and he didn't pay for the last article. He hides from me, doesn't answer the phone or the e-mails, nor the skype messages. Miserable 185 reais (around 90 USD)! And he's send me a PO!

So, I take a good look at the blue boards, before I start doing the job. Also, I avoid agencies taht propose to pay me in 45 or 60, or 90 days! It's an absurd, since they'll receive it much earlier from the client, for sure.

Things like that will ever occur. And when one of us try to put their names in ProZ Fori, like a colleague tried some times, the administration of the site says that we are breaking the rules and deletes the post.


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:39
English to German
+ ...
Stop treating every job like a test translation Jul 20, 2010

Will they like it? Will they like it?

This is not the way how to start a business relationship.

You may as well sell beautiful dresses or fur coats and then feel free to be concerned: "What, if she thinks it makes her look fat? Will she still pay me?"

This is far from being a methaphor, I am simply and honestly mocking this situation because I am speechless.

Martha Schwan wrote:
There is no guarantee whatsoever on the Translator's side that a Payment, that usually takes 30 or more days to be issued, is actually going to be made!!


Uhm, why not? Are you as the vendor not entitled to set up your own conditions? It is your duty to do so as a business partner.

I still cannot swallow the fact that I first have to deliver a Job done to an Agency, and then they will "decide" If my job is worth being paid or not.


Uhm. We all charge our credit cards and pay 4 weeks later, we order from catalogs or online and pay after the goods or services are received. Nobody will hinder you to demand an advance payment from first-time customers. You are running a business and you are nobody's intern.


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Martha Schwan  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 22:39
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I did not know all that you just told me in your post, I am still new on this market. thanks Jul 21, 2010

Joel Pina Diaz wrote:

There is a history about this issue and people in the business should be applying different solutions: On my experience a screen and feed back of customer is made before we start any job, no PO, then I state I cannot continue with job. Once PO is received we check all the information, our PO embrace some essential points that can be verifiable, from Ip address, phones, address, Bank or PayPal or other verified accounts and the most important : We ask our customer diplomatically (not all customers) a reverse payment depending their choice 1.50 UDS or Euro (Moneybookers), reimbursable of course. If this is not possible we request a scan office or home service statement to be send to our e-mail box (argument in this cases, scamming and abusive pseudo customers). It is hard at the beginning but it does result 95%. I am in Argentina and I really worry about this issue, allow me to help you in any way in order for you to collect for your performed job, if possible.


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Martha Schwan  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 22:39
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for the constructive criticism. I know I am wrong but still, I needed some advice. Jul 21, 2010

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

Sorry, Martha, I am sure this will sound harsh, but this is the truth: this is your own fault.
It seems you started (and delivered) the job, without confirming even the client's basic information (business address, phone number, website etc.) If you are a freelancer, you are running a business, and you should act like that. You are not an employee, you are not at the mercy of agencies, you are running an independent business, with all its freedom, but also with all its risks and responsibilities.

Due diligence is necessary: you should check out the prospective business partners BEFORE you enter into a business relationship with them. There are simple ways to check the basic information, look them up in the phonebook, if they are in-country, call them up, check their website, check whether the address they gave you is a valid address, check if they have a website, check if the email you got came from the same domain (and not a hotmail or yahoo address). Here, on ProZ, you also have the Blue Board, that may help mitigate the risk of fraud, or can give you peace of mind (there are some agencies that are simply slow to respond or to send POs, but they pay all right). If the client looks legit, demand a PO or a signed contract before starting the work (see the ATA model contract for ideas an creating one for yourself), and if it is a new client you can also try asking for a prepayment (the whole or a partial sum). The bigger the prospective job, the more important these details are.

As to this particular case in question, if your only means of contacting them is via email, then do so, a few more times. If they fail to send you a PO, then you can send an invoice without a PO number, just state the title of the document you translated as the job reference. But if they completely disappear, and you can't get a favorable response, then you will have to absorb the loss (chalk it up to experience).

I hope it turns out OK.
Good luck
Katalin

[Edited at 2010-07-21 00:19 GMT]


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Martha Schwan  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 22:39
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, I will sure start to do that before I even start. Jul 21, 2010

imatahan wrote:

I don't start any job without a PO since they've done it to me.

But even with a PO, we may not receive payment. There is NO guarantee.

It is very simple for an agency not to pay us, just say that they've disliked the job. Nobody controls that. It's confidence in the business relationship. Nothing else.

Like two months ago, I've done some IT translations to a Brazilian interpreter and he didn't pay for the last article. He hides from me, doesn't answer the phone or the e-mails, nor the skype messages. Miserable 185 reais (around 90 USD)! And he's send me a PO!

So, I take a good look at the blue boards, before I start doing the job. Also, I avoid agencies taht propose to pay me in 45 or 60, or 90 days! It's an absurd, since they'll receive it much earlier from the client, for sure.

Things like that will ever occur. And when one of us try to put their names in ProZ Fori, like a colleague tried some times, the administration of the site says that we are breaking the rules and deletes the post.




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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:39
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Use the Blue Board both ways Jul 21, 2010

imatahan wrote:
Things like that will ever occur. And when one of us try to put their names in ProZ Fori, like a colleague tried some times, the administration of the site says that we are breaking the rules and deletes the post.

They delete such posts because you ARE breaking the rules. Specific (identified) clients should not be discussed in the ProZ fora, because there is another dedicated area (the Blue Board) just for that.
If you worked for a client, you can use the Blue Board to rate them, by indicating your likeliness of working with them again. If they did not pay you (and there was no quality complaint), you should report that on the BB. This could help you to get your money (some clients did pay after receiving negative comments on their BB record) and it would definitely help others to avoid similar problems with the same outsourcer.
So, use the BB both ways: check your clients before you start working with them, and rate them afterward.

Katalin

[Edited at 2010-07-21 17:54 GMT]


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:39
English to German
+ ...
I hope I didn't sound rude, Martha. Jul 22, 2010

However, to be taken seriously by your prospective clientele it is necessary to appear as such. Trustworthiness is the key. Otherwise you will simply fall victim to the wrong kind of "customers". Your profile page sounds like: "Will do anything. Rate doesn't matter."

In your profile you are stating that you have 11 years of experience, a couple of lines later it says 15 years. In this thread you claim that you are new to the market.

Your rates don't allow any positioning of your skills and services either, as they range from 5 cents to 40 cents. Yet you are willing to work for 10 dollars per hour. Like at MacDonalds.

???


Edited for typo

[Edited at 2010-07-22 01:11 GMT]


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Marijke Singer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:39
Dutch to English
+ ...
Found this confusing too :-) Jul 22, 2010

Nicole Schnell wrote:

However, to be taken seriously by your prospective clientele it is necessary to appear as such. Trustworthiness is the key. Otherwise you will simply fall victim to the wrong kind of "customers". Your profile page sounds like: "Will do anything. Rate doesn't matter."

In your profile you are stating that you have 11 years of experience, a couple of lines later it says 15 years. In this thread you claim that you are new to the market.

Your rates don't allow any positioning of your skills and services either, as they range from 5 cents to 40 cents. Yet you are willing to work for 10 dollars per hour. Like at MacDonalds.

???




I would not post rates at all. Let them come to you and negotiate.


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Martha Schwan  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 22:39
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
WOW.. Thank you. I will review my profile. Jul 22, 2010

Marijke Singer wrote:

Nicole Schnell wrote:

However, to be taken seriously by your prospective clientele it is necessary to appear as such. Trustworthiness is the key. Otherwise you will simply fall victim to the wrong kind of "customers". Your profile page sounds like: "Will do anything. Rate doesn't matter."

In your profile you are stating that you have 11 years of experience, a couple of lines later it says 15 years. In this thread you claim that you are new to the market.

Your rates don't allow any positioning of your skills and services either, as they range from 5 cents to 40 cents. Yet you are willing to work for 10 dollars per hour. Like at MacDonalds.

???




I would not post rates at all. Let them come to you and negotiate.


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