What does Google translating entail? Pay?
Thread poster: veratek

veratek
Brazil
Local time: 17:28
French to English
+ ...
Dec 1, 2010

I have just seen this job ad:

We have a potential job for French to English translation and a sample file is attached here.
It is a very big volume and has 400,000 words but it needs to be completed in 15th December, 2010.
Order date: 3rd Dec 2010 (Friday)
Content is related to tender.
We need 2 types of quotation for Translation only without proof reading.
1, Translation by machine (Google translation)
2. Normal translation (by a human)
==================

Exactly what does this translation by machine (Google translation) entail? Just processing the original text through Google translation (copy and paste)? Does it involve any human editing at all?

What do people charge for this?


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Alexander Onishko  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:28
Russian to English
+ ...
:) Dec 2, 2010

veratek wrote:

I have just seen this job ad:

We have a potential job for French to English translation and a sample file is attached here.
It is a very big volume and has 400,000 words but it needs to be completed in 15th December, 2010.
Order date: 3rd Dec 2010 (Friday)
Content is related to tender.
We need 2 types of quotation for Translation only without proof reading.
1, Translation by machine (Google translation)
2. Normal translation (by a human)
==================

Exactly what does this translation by machine (Google translation) entail? Just processing the original text through Google translation (copy and paste)? Does it involve any human editing at all?

What do people charge for this?



Some crazy people Just forget about them


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 20:28
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Send a single quotation for human translation Dec 2, 2010

veratek wrote:
Exactly what does this translation by machine (Google translation) entail? Just processing the original text through Google translation (copy and paste)? Does it involve any human editing at all?

Honestly, I think there can be no possible comparison between Google Translate and a human translation. You will find that, unless your translation is all made up of very simple sentences, you will spend more time fixing Google Translate's translations than translating from scratch. Personally I would send one single quotation, with no possible discount for work done with Google Translate since the technology is not ripe enough to save any serious quantity of time.

Also, unless your usual CAT tool has some Google Translate plugin or connector, you will have to copy/paste twice, one to Google Translate and one from it.

And on top of that, and I mention it just in case it matters to the customer, anything you translate with Google Translate is stored by Google and immediately becomes searchable, potentially destroying your customer's privacy. You must make a clear statement about this.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

David Russi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:28
English to Spanish
+ ...
Postediting Dec 2, 2010

They want you to quote for postediting the google MT output. It is impossible to quantify, it can range from perfect translation of some strings (especially one word matches), to utterly absurd output that needs to be retranslated from scratch (this will be common, especially if sentences are long).

Good luck with postediting 400 000 wds in 13 days...


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 20:28
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
No way Dec 2, 2010

veratek wrote:
It is a very big volume and has 400,000 words but it needs to be completed in 15th December, 2010.
Order date: 3rd Dec 2010 (Friday)

I don't think this is a serious business proposal. Unless you hire 7-9 hard-working translators there is no way you will do this amount of words in that timeframe, even with Google Translate.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

GerSi  Identity Verified
Slovenia
Local time: 20:28
Member (2010)
German to Slovenian
+ ...
which is actually cheaper? Dec 2, 2010

You could play stupid and state the same price for both of them.
Or even better, why not quoting higher for the machine translation since it involves more risks and high possibility of more work?

Who says the machine translation should be cheaper than human translation?

I tried to play with Google translate once when the option in Trados Studio 2009 appeared.
My conclusions are as follows:

It depends on the text of course but this kind of translation can be very tricky and with this amount of words you could get tired and sloppy. The translation would be worse at the end.

Sometimes the program gives a completely legitimate translation but if you do some research you may find out the technical term is actually "a bit" different.

I would be interested in client's response to this kind of arguments.

Let me just add:

according to this job posting the client seems to be a bit ignorant about the translation industry. That's ok.

In my opinion: We can't expect everybody who order translations to know everything about them. They hear something, perhaps read something and think they got it right. But we are the experts therefore it is our job/duty to explain to them how things really work around here.

[Edited at 2010-12-02 10:09 GMT]

[Edited at 2010-12-02 10:33 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 19:28
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Does it involve any human editing at all? Dec 2, 2010

veratek wrote:
Does it involve any human editing at all?


A lot of it needs a complete rewrite, most of it needs a lot of tweaking and just occasionally there'll be a sentence that you can frame and put on the wall.

What do people charge for this?


Most translators don't charge for this. They quote their normal rate for translating the text or they reject the job out of hand.

If you have the time, why not (1) take a passage in your source language that is NOT confidential and that is not too simple (2) translate it, noting the time taken (3) paste the source into Google Translate, press the button, then edit the text that comes out of it.

That's not quite the same as using the translator's workbench tool, I know (though I've never seen it I imagine it's similar to CAT tools using pre-translate - correct me if I'm wrong), but it should give you a rough idea of how much to charge.

Just don't let anyone tell you it's only 10% of your translation rate.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

veratek
Brazil
Local time: 17:28
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I understand Dec 2, 2010

Thanks for the explanations. I wasn't sure why the client was asking for two separate quotes, if what they really wanted was just a "normal" translation anyways. Why should they care if a translator uses Google or not , and request that as a separate quote? I imagine they must be under the impression that there is less work with Google, so the translator would give them a lower priced quote. A plausible explanation to the dual request.

And yes, 400K is not a small job


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Simone Linke  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 20:28
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Google version Dec 2, 2010

Well, the job offer explicitly says "without proof-reading".. i.e., copy & paste from Google Translate, no further post-editing needed..

Direct link Reply with quote
 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 20:28
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Perhaps he does want an unedited GT after all Dec 2, 2010

veratek wrote:
Content is related to tender.
We need 2 types of quotation for Translation only without proof reading.
1, Translation by machine (Google translation)
2. Normal translation (by a human)


Well, I would simply ask him what you're asking us, but in the absence of further clarifiation I would assume that he wants an unedited formatted translation that was done by Google Translate. In other words, he wants a translation that was done using Google Translate, that is not changed in any way except that the translation is formatted in the same way as the source text. This formatted text can then be post-edited by someone else without the editor having to deal with formatting.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Amel Abdullah  Identity Verified
Jordan
Arabic to English
+ ...
Anything possible Dec 2, 2010

Maybe they're doing a study and don't have the time to plug the text into Google themselves? Anything is possible.

Direct link Reply with quote
 
Laurent KRAULAND  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 20:28
French to German
+ ...
In this case :) Dec 2, 2010

Samuel Murray wrote:

veratek wrote:
Content is related to tender.
We need 2 types of quotation for Translation only without proof reading.
1, Translation by machine (Google translation)
2. Normal translation (by a human)


Well, I would simply ask him what you're asking us, but in the absence of further clarifiation I would assume that he wants an unedited formatted translation that was done by Google Translate. In other words, he wants a translation that was done using Google Translate, that is not changed in any way except that the translation is formatted in the same way as the source text. This formatted text can then be post-edited by someone else without the editor having to deal with formatting.



In this case, I guess there is just one possible answer as far as I would be concerned: DIY.

And this kind of offer is published on a professional translators' website?

[Modifié le 2010-12-02 11:43 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 20:28
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Preserving formatting is also a skill Dec 2, 2010

Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
Samuel Murray wrote:
...I would assume that he wants an unedited formatted translation that was done by Google Translate. In other words, he wants a translation that was done using Google Translate, that is not changed in any way except that the translation is formatted in the same way as the source text.

In this case, I guess there is just one possible answer as far as I would be concerned: DIY.


The fact that the client knows how to use his web browser and copy/paste a text through Google Translate does not mean that he knows how to apply and/or retain formatting in a translated file. What's more, if the client doesn't understand the target language, there is a real risk that he might reformat some text in an incorrect way. As translators we deal with formatting all the time (even if only to retain it or most of it in the translation). There is therefore nothing wrong with asking translators to handle a Google Translation (no more than if e.g. the client had supplied a human translation in plain text format and asking you to reformat it to mimick a formatted source text).

And this kind of offer is published on a professional translators' website?


The client wants to pay for something that is translation related. If not a translators' web site, what kind of a web site would you suggest that the client should post his job offer?


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Laurent KRAULAND  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 20:28
French to German
+ ...
No need to know... Dec 2, 2010

Samuel Murray wrote:

The fact that the client knows how to use his web browser and copy/paste a text through Google Translate does not mean that he knows how to apply and/or retain formatting in a translated file. What's more, if the client doesn't understand the target language, there is a real risk that he might reformat some text in an incorrect way. As translators we deal with formatting all the time (even if only to retain it or most of it in the translation). There is therefore nothing wrong with asking translators to handle a Google Translation (no more than if e.g. the client had supplied a human translation in plain text format and asking you to reformat it to mimick a formatted source text).


There is no absolute need to know how to retain formatting: WFA does it quite good (I would say at least 95%) and its MT is Google-based.
The most recent version also supports, among others, the "dreaded" .INX format.

And the use of WFA can be taught in some hours, which would probably cost less than externalising the task.


The client wants to pay for something that is translation related. If not a translators' web site, what kind of a web site would you suggest that the client should post his job offer?

I don't know if this should be considered a serious offer or if it is just a hoax, posted in order to create some buzz. What I would like to see when such offers are posted is that site staff contacts the client to confirm the terms of the offer.

ETA: anyway and with 39 quotes for the moment, the job could be completed within the deadline.

[Modifié le 2010-12-02 20:17 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Laurent KRAULAND  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 20:28
French to German
+ ...
Refraining from further comments Dec 3, 2010

Given some factors for which I won't go into details (but are somewhat related to the fact that I was part of a so-called team which was supposed to complete another task deemed as "impossible"), I prefer refraining from further comments about this particular job.
As a matter of fact, I have the impression that some outsourcers - and clients, for that matter - live in a totally different dimension, which I fail to understand with my world outlook and values.
It would be therefore useless and pretentious to discuss or comment their requests based on my perspective.

[Modifié le 2010-12-03 05:17 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

What does Google translating entail? Pay?

Advanced search







SDL Trados Studio 2017 Freelance
The leading translation software used by over 250,000 translators.

SDL Trados Studio 2017 helps translators increase translation productivity whilst ensuring quality. Combining translation memory, terminology management and machine translation in one simple and easy-to-use environment.

More info »
Anycount & Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000

Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search