| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Colleague unable to pay Thread poster: Jaime McGill (X)
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Jaime McGill (X)
United States
German to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Wow. Thanks everyone. I almost feel like just sending the translator in question a link to this thread because you've all said it better than I could, but I guess that would be catty.
We're currently in talks about installment payments. So far we have gotten more or less as far as:
"I can't afford to pay you out of my own pocket any more than you could afford to pay someone else out of your pocket in a situation like this."
"Right, well, that's why I do... See more Wow. Thanks everyone. I almost feel like just sending the translator in question a link to this thread because you've all said it better than I could, but I guess that would be catty.
We're currently in talks about installment payments. So far we have gotten more or less as far as:
"I can't afford to pay you out of my own pocket any more than you could afford to pay someone else out of your pocket in a situation like this."
"Right, well, that's why I don't hire other people."
...but we are still negotiating that one.
A couple of people here have mentioned charging interest. We hadn't discussed this when discussing the job originally, though. (So many lessons learned! I wonder if I can use those to pay my rent. hmm) Is there a legal basis for me being able to demand this now, or would it be more like:
"Oh yeah, and, um, pay me interest!"
"Huh? No!"
"...darnit"
...?
Thanks again
Jaime ▲ Collapse
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Jaime McGill wrote:
"I can't afford to pay you out of my own pocket any more than you could afford to pay someone else out of your pocket in a situation like this."
The answer to that is,
"In a situation like this, I would pay the translator out of pocket. With all due respect, you owe me X, which you don't deny. It's not a matter of being able to afford it, it's a matter of contractual obligations. I was in a contract with you, not the end client, so technically the end client's non-payment is of no relevance to me. That's for you to sort out with them; outsourcing means you assume this risk and responsibility. Considering your situation, I'm willing to do you a favour and accept installments, but that's as far as I can go. I'm sure you don't want to see your name online associated with poor feedback and things like 'failed to pay', 'unreliable' and 'unprofessinal' beside it, or to receive a letter from my attorney and have a case brought against you in a small claims court."
| | | | Miriam Neidhardt (X) 
Germany
Local time: 18:38
English to German
Since you live in Germany, I assume that German law applies:
§ 288
Verzugszinsen.(1) Eine Geldschuld ist während des Verzugs zu verzinsen. Der Verzugszinssatz beträgt für das Jahr fünf Prozentpunkte über dem Basiszinssatz.
(2) Bei Rechtsgeschäften, an denen ein Verbraucher nicht beteiligt ist, beträgt der Zinssatz für Entgeltforderungen acht Prozentpunkte über dem Basiszinssatz.
In combination with §286 this means that you can charge... See more Since you live in Germany, I assume that German law applies:
§ 288
Verzugszinsen.(1) Eine Geldschuld ist während des Verzugs zu verzinsen. Der Verzugszinssatz beträgt für das Jahr fünf Prozentpunkte über dem Basiszinssatz.
(2) Bei Rechtsgeschäften, an denen ein Verbraucher nicht beteiligt ist, beträgt der Zinssatz für Entgeltforderungen acht Prozentpunkte über dem Basiszinssatz.
In combination with §286 this means that you can charge interest amounting to 8.12% from day 30 after the invoice date.
Good luck!
Miriam
[Edited at 2011-02-21 11:21 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jaime McGill (X)
United States
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
very much!
...possibly a dumb question, but here I go anyway. The translator lives in France; does that affect the situation at all?
Best
Jaime
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Miriam Neidhardt (X)
Germany
Local time: 18:38
English to German
I honestly have no idea, but I don't think so. Just inform her about the legal situation here and see what she says.
[Edited at 2011-02-21 13:41 GMT]
| | | | Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 18:38
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER | You've tried being nice | Feb 21, 2011 |
Jaime McGill wrote:
"Oh yeah, and, um, pay me interest!"
"Huh? No!"
"...darnit"
Sorry for being blunt, but it is exactly that kind of thinking that got you in this situation in the first place...
It's a standoff - if the person feels she can take advantage of you, she will.
You've tried being nice, it didn't work - time to get nasty. Beside a legal action there are some things you can do:
First of all, you can leave a negative BB comment. After all, she acted as an outsourcer. This might be even more effective than in case of regular companies - you will declare that she is not reliable and trustworthy (giving her real name!), which might deter both her colleagues and her clients.
This might depend on whether you have a written NDA with her... If not, you can contact the end client, explain the situation and ask for confirmation that the payment is withheld. It is very unlikely that you will convince them to pay you directly, but you might get a little bit more control of the situation. Just don't let anyone think, if the end client is indeed not paying, that you have taken over the debt collection from them - you had a deal with your colleague.
If you know them, you might contact your colleague's other clients. Dirty? Naturally. Effective? I would say so. Explain the situation and ask whether they paid any significant amounts to her lately. Of course, they will never reveal that information, but they might have some questions to her. Any debt collector will tell you that embarrassment may often work where nothing else does. You might also share with her some social circles, professional associates etc., when you might raise the issue, if only in the passing.
I perfectly understand the qualms you might have about this. But the boundary between "unable to pay" and "does not want to pay" is not that thin and it seems it has been long crossed.
Two more things: threats are effective only if you are ready to act on them. Otherwise it's just empty words.
Also, don't think "I cannot do that, because she will not pay me." Well, the heart of the matter is that she is not paying you already so there will be no better time. You are not to appease her into paying... you are to make her so uncomfortable that paying you will seem like a better option.
| | | | | It's business | Feb 21, 2011 |
If this colleague gave you a job he did it not to give you favour but to make profit. Doing it was part of his business activity and it is only natural that where there is possible profit there is also some risk.
As your contract is not with the end client but with the colleague who ordered translation there is no reason why you should be made responsible for the non-payment. After all if the end client would be so pleased that s/he would pay double - could you demand extra payment... See more If this colleague gave you a job he did it not to give you favour but to make profit. Doing it was part of his business activity and it is only natural that where there is possible profit there is also some risk.
As your contract is not with the end client but with the colleague who ordered translation there is no reason why you should be made responsible for the non-payment. After all if the end client would be so pleased that s/he would pay double - could you demand extra payment?
If you want to be nice allowing your colleague to pay in instalments seems like a reasonable option but it should be left entirely up to your good will.
Cheers
S ▲ Collapse
| | | | Elizabeth Adams
United States
Local time: 09:38
Member (2002)
Russian to English
| Outsourcing to colleagues | Feb 22, 2011 |
This is why I don't generally outsource. When I do, I:
1. Know the end client well (if not, I refer the client to another translator and let that translator know that the client is unknown to me).
2. Only outsource up to an amount I can easily pay out of pocket if payment gets held up for some reason.
If you are an individual instead of a corporation (as seems to have been the case here), outsourcing in violation of these two rules is madness.
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Jaime McGill (X)
United States
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks again everyone | Feb 24, 2011 |
Elizabeth: I agree - promising anyone a sum of money I did not have sitting in the bank would make me queasy. Heck, even credit cards make me nervous..
Stanislaw: that is very very good logic, I like it.
Jabberwock: I see your point about nice guys finishing last, but my question there was really meant to be more like "do I have a legal leg to stand on?" I'm perfectly happy to engage all the legal/collection-agency/Mafia/mob of angry farmers/whatever help necessar... See more Elizabeth: I agree - promising anyone a sum of money I did not have sitting in the bank would make me queasy. Heck, even credit cards make me nervous..
Stanislaw: that is very very good logic, I like it.
Jabberwock: I see your point about nice guys finishing last, but my question there was really meant to be more like "do I have a legal leg to stand on?" I'm perfectly happy to engage all the legal/collection-agency/Mafia/mob of angry farmers/whatever help necessary; I just wanted to be sure that I wasn't going to spend that money and lose on a technicality like whether I had specifically written out in advance that late payments would be charged interest. As it turns out, the law Miriam cited is based on an EU directive, and those seem like nice things to have on one's side.
We've reached (written) agreement on a weekly installment plan, with a clause that each payment gets made within 5 days of its due date or else the installment plan is void and original invoice terms apply again (i. e. payment in full plus collection fees and interest). Time will tell whether the situation has been resolved (sort of) amicably(-ish) or the collection-agency claws need to come out.
Jaime ▲ Collapse
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