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We need to stop this... (low budget information on a posted job)
Thread poster: Fabrizio Franchitti

Fabrizio Franchitti  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:45
Italian to French
+ ...
Mar 2, 2011

14k words, technical, deadline March 7, 0,02USD/word ??
Please, there has to be a way to prevent people from posting these job requests.
And 7 people have already quoted, now I feel really bad...

Sorry, did not mean to be rude but I had to point this out

Fabrizio



[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2011-03-02 16:33 GMT]


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P. PARTEN
United States
Local time: 16:45
Spanish to English
+ ...
Totally agree with you! Mar 2, 2011

but, this will only stop when/if these clients are prevented from posting. There's got to be a filter to prevent such an insult to legitimate hard-working translators.
Patricia


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Teresa Borges
Portugal
Local time: 22:45
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Me too... Mar 2, 2011

...

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Vadim Kadyrov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 00:45
Member (2011)
English to Russian
+ ...
so what? Mar 2, 2011

Please visit my page and realize that there are people ready and eager to work for 0.03 USD per word.

There are decent, professional and reliable translators ready to work for such amounts of money due to any reasons (situation in their country, what they consider to be a decent amount, etc., etc., etc.).

Moreover, people like me (who are newbies at proz and at the same time quite professional translators) get their clients using low rates.

I think that those who do not agree with the rates offered should just disregard such posts.


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Camelia Colnic  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:45
Romanian to English
+ ...
minimum rate filter Mar 2, 2011

There should be a statistic somewhere with the prices translators have and there should be a minimum rate allowed for each job posted. This is just an idea I have and maybe a proposal for the staff.

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Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 18:45
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
Clarification Mar 2, 2011

It would be erroneous to draw the conclusion that all quotes on a posted job are at or below the job's stated budget range.

Only the service provider can decide about their rates and they can-- and should-- charge accordingly for their work.

Regards,
Enrique


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Gudrun Wolfrath  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:45
English to German
+ ...
Fabrizio, Mar 2, 2011

I couldn't agree more.

Gudrun


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Paula Hernández
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:45
English to Spanish
+ ...
That is bad on the long range Mar 2, 2011

Vadim Kadyrov wrote:

Please visit my page and realize that there are people ready and eager to work for 0.03 USD per word.

There are decent, professional and reliable translators ready to work for such amounts of money due to any reasons (situation in their country, what they consider to be a decent amount, etc., etc., etc.).

Moreover, people like me (who are newbies at proz and at the same time quite professional translators) get their clients using low rates.

I think that those who do not agree with the rates offered should just disregard such posts.



If you agree to those rates, you won't be able to raise them even after you have been translating for 10 years or your country's situation changes.


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Yasutomo Kanazawa  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:45
English to Japanese
+ ...
Couldn't agree more with Fabrizio Mar 2, 2011

Like Vadim pointed out, yes, there may be good and reliable translators who work with those low rates. But this would harm the industry itself, and I have always been wondering why they appeal to others that they would take a job for this rate. Yes, maybe according to where you reside, making 40 USD a day by translating 2000 words x 0.02 USD would an average wage for that particular country. But why not go for 80 USD or 120 USD instead of 40? Why are these translators so modest in making more money than people employed at companies? Do they think it's a sin to earn more than other people? We translators don't have any insurance when we lose our jobs, but I assume they have. Hasn't everyone become a translator not because one likes languages or translating, but to make more money than other people?

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Laurent KRAULAND  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 23:45
French to German
+ ...
A matter of choice... Mar 2, 2011

I won't speak in the defence of such rates but my sincere opinion is that they are a matter of choice through the whole decision chain, starting with the end client and finishing with the translator.

We are all adults and should therefore know where we have our limits. On a personal level, I find it rather useless to quote for a job which will be paid at one third or one quarter of my lowest "acceptable rate".


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Gianfranco Zecchino  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:45
German to Italian
+ ...
The platform is also responsible for cheap labor tendencies Mar 2, 2011

Enrique wrote:

It would be erroneous to draw the conclusion that all quotes on a posted job are at or below the job's stated budget range.

Only service provider can decide about their rates and they can-- and should-- charge accordingly for their work.



First of all, even if ONE single person accepts such a humiliating (for us all) rate, the job poster gets what (s)he was looking for: cheap labor. And ProZ would be used as a source or cheap labor, not as a translators' community, as it used to be.

Secondly, saying that the translators are responsible for rates (forgetting that rates are that ridiculous also because there's a cheap labor platform) is a deliberate attempt on ProZ side to wash their hands. They are only serving as a platform where job posters and translators meet and handle according to the market rules, not as a community for and by professionals. Exactly what such posters want.
As long as it will be possible for job posters to indicate all sorts of humiliating rates, nothing will change. But ProZ knows that, if they decide to set minimum rates mechanisms, they might loose many job posters, who would look somewhere else for their "slaves"... Many well-known professionals said that such a position is intolerable and even started to campaign for a change but, seeing no real change to the only determining issue (minimum rates), left the platform. The opposite of what we need: keep the good ones and shut the doors to the exploiters.

I wish ProZ went back to its origins: a community primarily made FOR translators and by translators, and for the honest clients/agencies looking for professional services at a fair price.


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Paula Hernández
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:45
English to Spanish
+ ...
Totally agree Mar 2, 2011

Gianfranco Zecchino wrote:

Enrique wrote:

It would be erroneous to draw the conclusion that all quotes on a posted job are at or below the job's stated budget range.

Only service provider can decide about their rates and they can-- and should-- charge accordingly for their work.



First of all, even if ONE single person accepts such a humiliating (for us all) rate, the job poster gets what (s)he was looking for: cheap labor. And ProZ would be used as a source or cheap labor, not as a translators' community, as it used to be.

Secondly, saying that the translators are responsible for rates (forgetting that rates are that ridiculous also because there's a cheap labor platform) is a deliberate attempt on ProZ side to wash their hands. They are only serving as a platform where job posters and translators meet and handle according to the market rules, not as a community for and by professionals. Exactly what such posters want.
As long as it will be possible for job posters to indicate all sorts of humiliating rates, nothing will change. But ProZ knows that, if they decide to set minimum rates mechanisms, they might loose many job posters, who would look somewhere else for their "slaves"... Many well-known professionals said that such a position is intolerable and even started to campaign for a change but, seeing no real change to the only determining issue (minimum rates), left the platform. The opposite of what we need: keep the good ones and shut the doors to the exploiters.

I wish ProZ went back to its origins: a community primarily made FOR translators and by translators, and for the honest clients/agencies looking for professional services at a fair price.


And this is why next October, when I have to renew my membership, I will stop being a paying member. I rather belong to a translation association and pay 60 euros, than paying to belong to Proz and get nothing in return but an increasing bad feeling about the market.


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Edward Potter  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 23:45
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
I beg to differ Mar 2, 2011

Sorry to be a party pooper, but a job poster should be allowed to offer any price he or she wishes. One of the great strengths of Proz is it allows both parties great flexibility in setting prices. The site knows that it does not know better than the two parties agreeing to do a job.

On the other end, some job posters might be offended by translators insisting on prices they consider exhorbitant. I see no problem with this either.

There may be some student or beginner who eagerly will accept low rates in order to gain experience. That person, working at a very low wage, gets the chance to prove many things about himself:

- Doing the job on time.
- Doing the job right.
- Answering the phone properly.
- Being available for questions.
- Writing out an invoice properly.
- Sending the invoice promptly.
- Working well together with the customer.
- Accepting payments efficiently.
- Etc.

Indeed, such a job could be very valuable for certain people.

On the other hand, if the outsourcer wants "the moon on a stick", for a very low price, he'll quickly learn that just won't be happening. There is no need for Proz to get into the middle of these things. There is really no need for a translator who wants more money to feel resentful either.


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Laurent KRAULAND  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 23:45
French to German
+ ...
Exactly Mar 2, 2011

Edward Potter wrote:
(.../...)
On the other hand, if the outsourcer wants "the moon on a stick", for a very low price, he'll quickly learn that just won't be happening. There is no need for Proz to get into the middle of these things. There is really no need for a translator who wants more money to feel resentful either.


Exactly.
Furthermore, I now fail to understand why the current focus is on rates when, all things being equal, some colleagues accept for example what I personally consider to be outrageous purchasing conditions.


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Jared Tabor
Local time: 18:45
SITE STAFF
Sorry to hear about that, Paula Mar 2, 2011

Paula Hernández Sambeat wrote:

And this is why next October, when I have to renew my membership, I will stop being a paying member. I rather belong to a translation association and pay 60 euros, than paying to belong to Proz and get nothing in return but an increasing bad feeling about the market.


Hello Paula,

I'm sorry to hear that you are unhappy with the benefits of your membership. Members may ask for a prorated refund on their membership at any time. If you would like, please just put in a support request confirming you would like a refund and I can make sure that gets taken care of promptly.

Best regards,

Jared


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