CAT discount based on target words
Thread poster: Olly Pekelharing

Olly Pekelharing  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:10
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
Apr 19, 2011

Is there a simple way to calculate a CAT discount for target words? Most of my clients want me to invoice the source words of a document, but one always requests the target words. It's fine with me as there is usually not a huge difference between the numbers of words in the source and the target (unless I have to explain a lot of terms in the source). Occasionally I get a large job from them with a lot of repetitions or 100% matches, and then we agree on a CAT discount, but on the basis of the source words. I recently did a large job for them on a CAT-discount basis, and it so happened that the target had about 1000 more words than the source due to a lot of acronyms needing to be explained, so it would have been to my advantage to invoice on the basis of target words. But how would you go about offering a CAT discount on the basis of the source text (repetitions in a TM in this case) but charging on the basis of the target? Am I missing something simple here?

Thanks.


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Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 19:10
Member (2005)
English to Russian
+ ...
Formula Apr 19, 2011

1. In your CAT of choice, count total effective words in source, i.e. weighted total of all words. A.
2. Count total words in source. B.
3. Count total words in target. C.
4. Invoice for D=A/B*C words.

Example.

CAT analysis log (of source!):

Category............Rate.........Words.....Effective words
-------------------------------------------------------------------
100% matches....40%.........1000.............400
95% matches......50%..........600..............300
90% matches......60%..........500..............300
75% matches......80%.........2000............1600
No match............100%........4900............4900

Total effective words: 7500
Total words: 10000

Total target words: 12000

7500/10000*12000=9000 words for invoicing purposes

[Edited at 2011-04-19 07:06 GMT]


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Alex Lago  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 17:10
Member (2009)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Don't see the problem Apr 19, 2011

HI

I don't see what your problem is, alll you have to do is count the words in your target file.

When applying a CAT discount scheme, people use a tool to count the words in the file, this tool will then give you a breakdown of the words according to matches it has found.

So in your case simply use the target file instead of the source file, all you have to bear in mind is you is that if your word counting tool can be connected to a TM you should disconnect it to make sure you don't count the matches in your TM (as you have translated the file with the TM you would get all 100% matches), if your CAT counter forces you to have a TM simply use an empty one.


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Olly Pekelharing  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:10
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
TOPIC STARTER
Target analysis Apr 19, 2011

Hi Alex,

If you run an analysis on the target text with a CAT tool without a TM running it displays only matches found within the text but does not account for matches from previous translations found in a TM. I would think it would be plausible to run an analysis of a target text against the target segments of the original TM (before you started translating). This would produce the 100% matches from the original TM used in the target text (as long as these were not changed in the target text). I know no way to do this though, so I'll use Mikhail's simple method in the meantime!

... having said that, I just found a reverse source-target function in my CAT tool. I'm going to give that a try...

[Edited at 2011-04-19 10:49 GMT]


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Bryan Crumpler  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:10
Dutch to English
+ ...
I would... Apr 19, 2011

...calculate the percent difference between the source rates with and without discounts applied, and then multiply that percentage times the target total rate with no discounts applied.

That is the only thing that makes unambiguous, mathematical sense to me, and it provides a comparable rate without a lot of fuss.

For example:

10,000 word source file at $0.20 USD / word

Say there are:

5000 CM/100% matches (charge 25%)
1000 Reps (charge 50%)
500 75 to 99% Fuzzies (charge 75%)

The respective rates are:

CM/100 = $0.05 / word
Reps = $0.10 / word
Fuz = $0.15 / word
No Match = $0.20 / word

Source rate without discounts = $2000

Source rate with discounts = $1125

Percent difference is 56% (see: http://www.ajdesigner.com/phppercentdifference/percent_difference_equation.php)

Now, presume you have 2500 extra words in the target for whatever reason (total of 12500 target words).

12,500 word target at $0.20 USD / word = $2500

56% x $2500 = $1400


You send an invoice for $1400 and be done with it. End of story.


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Alex Lago  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 17:10
Member (2009)
English to Spanish
+ ...
With Wordfast Pro this is easy Apr 19, 2011

Olly Pekelharing wrote:

Hi Alex,

If you run an analysis on the target text with a CAT tool without a TM running it displays only matches found within the text but does not account for matches from previous translations found in a TM. I would think it would be plausible to run an analysis of a target text against the target segments of the original TM (before you started translating).
... having said that, I just found a reverse source-target function in my CAT tool. I'm going to give that a try...

[Edited at 2011-04-19 10:49 GMT]


I use wordfast pro so if I had to do what you want (take into consideration matches from previous translations), I would:

1- Translate the document
2- Get the TM you want to use and invert the languages (so if it was ES>EN it is now EN>ES), Wordfast has a function that does this with two mouse clicks.
3- Calculate the word count using the TM I just inverted


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Olly Pekelharing  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:10
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
TOPIC STARTER
Hi Alex Apr 20, 2011

Thanks. I have done the very same with Wordfast classic and it worked fine.

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Siddharth Anand  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 21:40
Member (2011)
German to English
+ ...
A Project with 80% Repetitions? Apr 26, 2011

Hi All

I was recently offered a project recently with almost 80% Repetitions

Trados version (6.0, 7.0, 9.0) Percent Words Net

Exact Match
% of base rate for repetitions 25% 818 204.5
% of base rate for 100% matches 25% 119 29.75
Fuzzy matches
% of base rate for 95% - 99% matches 40% 28 11.2
% of base rate for 85% - 94% matches 50% 55 27.5
% of base rate for 75% - 84% matches 60% 54 32.4
% of base rate for 50% - 74% matches 75% 6 4.5
No Match
% of base rate for No match 100% 43 43

This project totaled 1123 words, but as per the Agency:

1. 818 were Contextual Matches
2. 119 were 100% Repetitions
3. 43 were No Match

Based on this calculation, the 1123 worded document would be charged at 352.85 Words. This literally means only 30% of the Base rate Payment.

Questions:
1. Is this common? I never thought the Repetition could be as much as 70-80% of the source text.
2. How are Contextual matches different from 100% Matches?
3. How to deal with this? Should a Minimum project fee be charged or an increase in base rate
to compensate for this?

Note: This a full comprehensive Text and not a Accounts statement with just numbers. Many of my other clients pay in full (irrespective of the repetitions).

Please help!


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Olly Pekelharing  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:10
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
TOPIC STARTER
80% repetitions Apr 27, 2011

To answer your questions:

1. I'm sure it's not common, but it's certainly possible.
2. With contextual matches they mean 100% matches, i.e. matches resulting from the TM (which they would obviously have to supply you). The repetitions are of course repeated segments in the text.
3. As for the percentages, all my clients pay the full rate for everything below 95%, but that won't effect this count very much. The percentages above 95% sound OK. You would only charge a minimum rate if yours is more than the equivalent of those 353 words. I think an increase in base rate is also uncommon. In the end its up to you whether you want to accept the project!


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CAT discount based on target words

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