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How much do translators earn?
Thread poster: FVS (X)
bergazy
bergazy  Identity Verified
Croatia
Local time: 11:14
Croatian to Italian
+ ...
Nice May 3, 2011

@ Sara: of course, Dave's example is giving some hope - for translators from European Union- but it looks that he, like you, is focused on one initial question:

"How do earnings increase with experience?"

Everything else is avoided here.


Is it possible for translator from Kinshasa (Kongo) to earn 100K per year? Yes, if his name is Dikembe Mutombo and if he is willing to do so (former NBA star, speaks 9 languages).


 
Marie-Hélène Hayles
Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:14
Italian to English
+ ...
Concentrating on the actual figure is irrelevant May 3, 2011

bergazy wrote:

@ Sara: of course, Dave's example is giving some hope - for translators from European Union- but it looks that he, like you, is focused on one initial question:

"How do earnings increase with experience?"

Everything else is avoided here.


Is it possible for translator from Kinshasa (Kongo) to earn 100K per year? Yes, if his name is Dikembe Mutombo and if he is willing to do so (former NBA star, speaks 9 languages).




bergazy, I think it's irrelevant to get hung up on the exact figure one can or can't earn in a given market/country. Sara has provided some extremely useful information on how you can maximise your income wherever you live. Sure, maybe in Croatia, or Chad, or Costa Rica (picking countries more or less at random) it might be all but impossible to make $100,000 as a translator. But that doesn't mean it's not possible to develop a strategy to increase your income to say, double or triple or ten times the local average (for a translator, manager, whatever) and therefore have a very comfortable lifestyle.


 
Abba Storgen (X)
Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 05:14
Greek to English
+ ...
What geographical limitations???? May 3, 2011

You all work on the internet via email. What does your actual residence have to do with anything? Your "place of actual work" is the internet. Do you change your rates every time you travel? ("oh, my train passes through a cheap country now - I'll lower my rates for 5 hours...").

Translators have the unique opportunity to charge regardless of their actual residence (and this idea of saying "I live in a cheap country"
... See more
You all work on the internet via email. What does your actual residence have to do with anything? Your "place of actual work" is the internet. Do you change your rates every time you travel? ("oh, my train passes through a cheap country now - I'll lower my rates for 5 hours...").

Translators have the unique opportunity to charge regardless of their actual residence (and this idea of saying "I live in a cheap country" is plain stupid - your country will be cheap forever if you keep thinking like that).

The problem is that translators can't even see this opportunity (and a lot of other things). This is the industry of self-defeating mentalities. It's like saying "Company A should charge less because it makes computers in Texas and Texas is cheaper than Switzerland, and they should charge even less if half their stuff moves back with their parents". (!!!)

Why don't you all change your address at proz.com to 'New York"? Who's going to know anyway? And what's the difference?

Think. Just a little bit. Think.
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bergazy
bergazy  Identity Verified
Croatia
Local time: 11:14
Croatian to Italian
+ ...
Try harder to convince me May 3, 2011

Dear Marie-Hélène

sure, Sara has provided extremely good information about how to maximize translators income in stable, wealthy, developed societies, in her well situated microcosm, and listed starting conditions are not valid "wherever you live". She is telling us something like: "all I am saying is that if I can do it, anyone can". This is affirmation I consider to be untrue for the reasons I mentioned before.

Please take a look at the inital post:

"
... See more
Dear Marie-Hélène

sure, Sara has provided extremely good information about how to maximize translators income in stable, wealthy, developed societies, in her well situated microcosm, and listed starting conditions are not valid "wherever you live". She is telling us something like: "all I am saying is that if I can do it, anyone can". This is affirmation I consider to be untrue for the reasons I mentioned before.

Please take a look at the inital post:

"Do earnings tend to vary by specialised field?
Which languages are most profitable?
In USD terms, would 100,000 dollars a year be a little or a lot?
Is there a big variation by country??
I'm not looking for individuals' earnings but would like to get an idea of earning levels.
How do earnings increase with experience?"



Why don't you try to answer to some of them?

Even if my personal economic achievements are great I'm very aware that not everyone in our one and only world was as lucky as me. My advice for reading: The Nature of Mass Poverty by J.K. Galbraith

http://www.amazon.com/Nature-Mass-Poverty-Kenneth-Galbraith/dp/1583484191
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Marie-Hélène Hayles
Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:14
Italian to English
+ ...
I don't know the answers to most of those questions May 3, 2011

bergazy wrote:

Dear Marie-Hélène

sure, Sara has provided extremely good information about how to maximize translators income in stable, wealthy, developed societies, in her well situated microcosm, and listed starting conditions are not valid "wherever you live". She is telling us something like: "all I am saying is that if I can do it, anyone can". This is affirmation I consider to be untrue for the reasons I mentioned before.

Please take a look at the inital post:

"Do earnings tend to vary by specialised field?
Which languages are most profitable?
In USD terms, would 100,000 dollars a year be a little or a lot?
Is there a big variation by country??
I'm not looking for individuals' earnings but would like to get an idea of earning levels.
How do earnings increase with experience?"

Why don't you try to answer to some of them?



I don't see why it's my business to convince you anyway! But for the very little it's worth, my answers would be
1) No idea: I only know my own field for my own language pair.
2) No idea: I only know my own language pair.
3) A lot, but achievable if you're prepared to put in the effort (and that's the key point - it also involves weighing up whether you actually want to! Sara's business approach is very different to my own, and while hers may well be more profitable, it wouldn't suit me at all. Income is not the only factor to be considered when deciding a business strategy.)
4) No idea: I only work with clients from a handful of countries, and have only ever been based (as a freelancer) in one.
5) My earnings have generally increased significantly year on year.


 
Giles Watson
Giles Watson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 11:14
Italian to English
In memoriam
Experience and earnings May 3, 2011

bergazy wrote:

How do earnings increase with experience?"



This is a natural process.

As you gain experience and your translation skills improve, you will tend to attract more customers than you can comfortably handle, particularly if you specialise and particularly if the market is buoyant.

You will therefore tend to quote higher rates to new clients in order to make it worth your while putting in the extra effort, and to demand higher rates from your existing customers when the new ones have established themselves as regulars.

Some of your more budget-conscious older customers may go elsewhere but in general, translation costs are a minor element in most budgets. If your clients are making money from your work, they are not going to risk that income by looking for other, slightly cheaper, options.



[Edited at 2011-05-03 14:00 GMT]


 
John Rawlins
John Rawlins  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:14
Spanish to English
+ ...
Whatever it takes to keep the translator happy May 3, 2011

Giles Watson wrote:

bergazy wrote:

How do earnings increase with experience?"




Some of your more budget-conscious older customers may go elsewhere but in general, translation costs are a minor element in most budgets. If your clients are making money from your work, they are not going to risk that income by looking for other, slightly cheaper, options.



[Edited at 2011-05-03 14:00 GMT]


Good point Giles. Most translators overlook the fact that for direct clients the translation budget is usually one of the least significant costs. If the client is confident in the translator's ability then a price of 5 cents a word, 15 cents a word, or 35 cents a word is just not very important. Whatever it takes to keep the translator happy...

However, for a translation agency, every cent that can be scraped off the translator's price is another cent on the profit line.


 
Dave Bindon
Dave Bindon  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 12:14
Greek to English
In memoriam
The point May 3, 2011

Bergazy wrote:

@ Sara: of course, Dave's example is giving some hope - for translators from European Union- but it looks that he, like you, is focused on one initial question:

"How do earnings increase with experience?"

Everything else is avoided here.


I didn't mention anything about earnings increasing with experience. I was joining in the general discussion about "Which languages are most profitable?" and "Is there a big variation by country?", and Sara's point that adding value can be far more influential than location or language pair.

And I maintain that location does not have to be a limitation. Sure, if someone chooses to work solely for an agency or agencies in their country of residence then their income will be limited to that country's standard rate, which may be low. But, as Eleftherios says, the majority of us work "on the internet"; my UK and N. American clients pay me based on their local economies, not on mine. If I were to move to Chad tomorrow, my e-mail address would be the same and my rates would be the same.




As for the other questions from the initial poster:

"Do earnings tend to vary by specialised field?"

Rate per word varies, definitely. Rate per hour can vary, depending on how good you are. There's no point in trying to earn 50% more per word if the translation is so much more difficult that it takes you twice as long to complete. But I think it would be unwise to think along the lines of, "I want to be a translator, what shall I specialize in?". If you don't already have an obvious specialist field (gained through education or experience), then I think you should start off by gaining general experience as a translator. At some point in the future you may find that you have, by chance, gained a lot of translating experience in one field and can start to market yourself as a specialist.


"In USD terms, would 100,000 dollars a year be a little or a lot?"

That, I would say, is well above average. However, it's not unthinkable. You need to find the right clients and persuade them that you're worth a higher rate. You need to become an asset to the client rather than just an easily-replaceable name in the Proz directory. And you need to be lucky.


"How do earnings increase with experience?"

That's hard to answer and impossible to quantify. Initially you'll probably see a fairly rapid increase in earnings, but not really because the clients are paying more because of the months/years of experience you can prove. The increase comes as you get more clients, dare to charge more, and work much faster. Then, almost inevitably, you'll hit 'ceilings'. You'll be translating almost as fast as you can type (apart from that 'brick-wall' phrase which takes half an hour to translate!); you'll have almost continuous work; and you'll reach a point where the client would rather use a cheaper, albeit less experienced, translator.

At this point, your only way forward is to rely on business experience rather than just experience in translation (and that is, I'm sure Sara and Eleftherios would agree, something you should be doing before you hit the 'ceilings'). To paraphrase somebody else (on a different topic, I think) we can all be tap-water, but we need to give clients a reason to pay for imported mineral water (and leave a tip!). The same poster, I think, also used an analogy along the lines of persuading the client that you're a top restaurant with 5 Michelin stars and not a fast food outlet.


Eleftherios wrote:

You all work on the internet via email. What does your actual residence have to do with anything? Your "place of actual work" is the internet. Do you change your rates every time you travel? ("oh, my train passes through a cheap country now - I'll lower my rates for 5 hours...").

Translators have the unique opportunity to charge regardless of their actual residence (and this idea of saying "I live in a cheap country" is plain stupid - your country will be cheap forever if you keep thinking like that)


Συμφωνώ απολύτως [I agree entirely]. Eleftherios is quite (very!) vocal about this on the Greek section of the forum, and I have to thank him for that. While some of my colleague-competitors are working like mad to earn what the Greek agencies are willing to pay, I'm refusing to drop even 1 cent from my usual rate. Result: good earnings for little work.


 
Giles Watson
Giles Watson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 11:14
Italian to English
In memoriam
Walls, ceilings and 5-star dining May 3, 2011

Dave Bindon wrote:

"How do earnings increase with experience?"

That's hard to answer and impossible to quantify. Initially you'll probably see a fairly rapid increase in earnings, but not really because the clients are paying more because of the months/years of experience you can prove. The increase comes as you get more clients, dare to charge more, and work much faster. Then, almost inevitably, you'll hit 'ceilings'. You'll be translating almost as fast as you can type (apart from that 'brick-wall' phrase which takes half an hour to translate!); you'll have almost continuous work; and you'll reach a point where the client would rather use a cheaper, albeit less experienced, translator.



Συμφωνώ μέχρι ενός σημείου [I agree up to a point]. In a lively market where good translators are at a premium, many customers are willing to rearrange or extend deadlines [again, μέχρι ενός σημείου/up to a point ], as well as pay more, to obtain the services of a specific translator. This gives you greater flexibility in organising your workflow to generate the income you require.



At this point, your only way forward is to rely on business experience rather than just experience in translation (and that is, I'm sure Sara and Eleftherios would agree, something you should be doing before you hit the 'ceilings'). To paraphrase somebody else (on a different topic, I think) we can all be tap-water, but we need to give clients a reason to pay for imported mineral water (and leave a tip!). The same poster, I think, also used an analogy along the lines of persuading the client that you're a top restaurant with 5 Michelin stars and not a fast food outlet.



You have to serve up a demonstrably 5-star meal, of course.

The client has to appreciate your work (in most cases this means that it generates income) and be able to pay for it. Sara made a good point about profiling clients. There's no point in hoping for top rates if your client portfolio is made up of bottom-feeding agencies and casual jobs. You have to take stock of you own abilities, identify your strong points, and sort out promising clients in thriving business areas where your skills set is above the market average.


 
Sara Freitas
Sara Freitas
France
Local time: 11:14
French to English
And be creative! May 3, 2011

Giles Watson wrote:

You have to take stock of you own abilities, identify your strong points, and sort out promising clients in thriving business areas where your skills set is above the market average.


You have to do your homework, of course ("profile" your ideal client/type of project and focus your market research and marketing and communications efforts on those clients and those clients alone). And I am convinced that many translators with their diverse backgrounds can find unique skills from a past life that apply to thriving business areas and leverage them to generate higher incomes.

Let's not confuse "sales" with marketing, either (a thread that seems to be running through this discussion). Marketing is about positioning and targeting your efforts first and foremost. If you do that well, you won't need to do much actual "selling" to earn a high income.

And I agree with Dave that, depending on what you did in your past lives, starting out as a specialist might not be possible. I personally did my first three years as a "generalist", identified some areas where my past experiences clued me in on what to focus on and where to add value, and did the rest through continuing education in my specialty fields and a very painful marketing bootcamp with a tough-as-nails drill sargent.

I think you also have to demystify the business side of our...business. Don't get obsessed with "selling" (hardly anybody is good at that and everybody hates it, myself included). Focus on the parts of the business that will give you the best ROI (marketing and streamlining admin to save time) and find ways to make them fun for you (varies from person to person). If you are having fun, others sense that and it will draw clients to you like a magnet


 
Dave Bindon
Dave Bindon  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 12:14
Greek to English
In memoriam
Maybe May 3, 2011

Giles Watson wrote:

You have to serve up a demonstrably 5-star meal, of course.



That helps a lot, but isn't always necessary. A client who's used to 'Fast food' translations might pay more for what he thinks is 5 star, even if he can't actually judge the quality.


 
bergazy
bergazy  Identity Verified
Croatia
Local time: 11:14
Croatian to Italian
+ ...
@ Giles: on the contrary May 4, 2011

Agencies always tend to cut our rates down. Only direct clients are ready to pay without complaining.



[Edited at 2011-05-04 09:32 GMT]

[Edited at 2011-05-04 09:33 GMT]


 
Giles Watson
Giles Watson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 11:14
Italian to English
In memoriam
There are good agencies May 4, 2011

bergazy wrote:

Agencies always tend to cut our rates down. Only direct clients are ready to pay without complaining.



This is generally true because agencies tend to start out with a budget and then look for translators. Sometimes, though, for premium, quality-sensitive projects, an agency may want to know how much the best-qualified (available) translators will cost before submitting a bid.

To be honest, I don't see the point in varying my rate on the basis of the customer's business model. There are other more important factors to consider.

@Dave

Συμφωνώ μέχρι κεραίας [I utterly agree] A 5-star meal has more to do with perception than nutrition!


 
Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)
Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 11:14
English to Polish
+ ...
"location doesn't matter" is ridiculous May 4, 2011

Two of the most prevalent theories I find on proz.com forums with regard to rates are:

1. To know your rate, first find out what your costs of doing business are, your living expenses and monthly output. Divide your cash flow needs by your output. There.

2. Location doesn't matter, it's a global market.

How people manage to reconcile the two is simply baffling.

Here's a reality check: it's not a global market because translators working from X
... See more
Two of the most prevalent theories I find on proz.com forums with regard to rates are:

1. To know your rate, first find out what your costs of doing business are, your living expenses and monthly output. Divide your cash flow needs by your output. There.

2. Location doesn't matter, it's a global market.

How people manage to reconcile the two is simply baffling.

Here's a reality check: it's not a global market because translators working from X to Y usually live in Y, spend in Y and compete with each other.

To claim that your location is only about your address is truly preposterous. If it were the case, translating would be one of the top earning jobs in the poorer countries and a truly miserable gig in the richer ones.

The bottom line is - outsourcers want the best service (sometimes) for the lowest price (usually). If you live in Tokyo and translate from Bengali into Somali, you simply have a problem because none of your competitors spend $3,000 per month on rent.

[Edited at 2011-05-04 14:51 GMT]
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bergazy
bergazy  Identity Verified
Croatia
Local time: 11:14
Croatian to Italian
+ ...
The voice of reason May 4, 2011

Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote:

The bottom line is - outsourcers want the best service (sometimes) for the lowest price (usually). If you live in Tokyo and translate from Bengali into Somali, you simply have a problem because none of your competitors spend $3,000 per month on rent.

[Edited at 2011-05-04 14:51 GMT]



That's exactly what I had in mind.

Great conclusion.

Marko


 
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