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Exploitation of labor
Thread poster: Nahit Karataşlı
Nahit Karataşlı
Nahit Karataşlı  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 06:11
English to Turkish
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TOPIC STARTER
It's relevant Nov 12, 2011

Natalie wrote:

That post is about a different case plus the outsourcer's record already contained complaints.



Did you read the payment term?
It says 60 days, and also no payment


 
Nahit Karataşlı
Nahit Karataşlı  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 06:11
English to Turkish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Are these ghouls innocent? Nov 12, 2011

There may exist lack of confidence, ignorance, etc., but this never changes the truth of the existence of the translators who work or need to work or who are constrained to work in this way, and ghouls that cause the case.

By saying “this is free market, and translators have the chance to choose”, we never can solve the problem. This only encourages these ghouls, and they will probably say the same: “this is free market, take it or leave it.” Nowadays, these ghouls increase
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There may exist lack of confidence, ignorance, etc., but this never changes the truth of the existence of the translators who work or need to work or who are constrained to work in this way, and ghouls that cause the case.

By saying “this is free market, and translators have the chance to choose”, we never can solve the problem. This only encourages these ghouls, and they will probably say the same: “this is free market, take it or leave it.” Nowadays, these ghouls increase in numbers, and I hope you won’t experience the same in Euro zone or some other places

When the market is occupied by these gouls, IMHO that's the case we're having day by day, they don't pay for your self confidence, etc.

Regards,
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Stanislaw Czech, MCIL CL
Stanislaw Czech, MCIL CL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:11
Member (2006)
English to Polish
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SITE LOCALIZER
More important is how much they pay Nov 13, 2011

I would much rather work for a company which pays 2x per source word after 60 days than for a company which pays x per source word after a week.

After some time in this business I learned that I need a "cushion" of money which enables me to pay for my living during the periods when I'm waiting for a big payment or when for some reasons there is a delay.

It's much more important how much money each hour of my work earns me and whether I may be 100% sure that I will final
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I would much rather work for a company which pays 2x per source word after 60 days than for a company which pays x per source word after a week.

After some time in this business I learned that I need a "cushion" of money which enables me to pay for my living during the periods when I'm waiting for a big payment or when for some reasons there is a delay.

It's much more important how much money each hour of my work earns me and whether I may be 100% sure that I will finally be paid.

Of course it's nice to be paid quickly but I would say that difference between payment after 60 days and after 30 is worth to me maximum some 10% - i.e. if 50 from someone who pays after 30 days is a good deal than 55 from someone paying after 60 days would be equally welcome.

Cheers
S
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Emma Goldsmith
Emma Goldsmith  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:11
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
Good point, Stanislaw Nov 13, 2011

Stanislaw Czech wrote:

It's much more important how much money each hour of my work earns me and whether I may be 100% sure that I will finally be paid.


I totally agree.


 
Nahit Karataşlı
Nahit Karataşlı  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 06:11
English to Turkish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Be happy with ghouls Nov 13, 2011

Dear Stanislaw and Emma,

I wish more happiness with these ghouls for many 60 days or 60+ days that increases/doubles/triples your income.

I can't understand the reason for paying double after 2-3 months.
Is that a way of money laundering?

Regards,


 
Nicole Schnell
Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:11
English to German
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In memoriam
Hi Nahit Nov 13, 2011

Nahit Karataşlı wrote:

Dear Stanislaw and Emma,

I wish more happiness with these ghouls for many 60 days or 60+ days that increases/doubles/triples your income.

I can't understand the reason for paying double after 2-3 months.
Is that a way of money laundering?

Regards,



Here are my rules that I have established for my company:

1. I am not a laborer

2. My client are not ghouls, otherwise they wouldn't be my clients

3. Always distinguish between customers and clients: Customers cost you money, clients bring you money. Figure out which ones you want to keep and which ones you simply send into the next desert.

4. I allow all kinds of payment terms, as long as the cash flow is right. I have agreements with clients for payment terms of up to 14 days for small amounts up to USD 499.99, 30 days for amounts of USD 500 and higher, and, yes!, I will allow payment terms of 45 days. My really special, beloved high-end clients will have a payment term of 60 days and this is just fine with me. Why? Because I am familiar with the proceedings at world market leaders. My translations have to pass at least three or four departments on different continents. It takes a month. So what? Those are the truly expensive projects, otherwise they wouldn't make such an ado. I just lean back, I am in control of my cash flow, and as soon as they are done with their internal proceedings, they send back their comments which usually consist of neat little smilies and compliments or maybe some nagging about their preference of some internal technical term, so what?

I rather have my high-paying 60-days clients that I have been attending to for so many years than any one-off customer with baby jobs at baby rates that are so low that they are paid immediately from petty cash. I am not McDonalds, I don't sell for McDonalds rates, I do not provide McDonald's kind of services and I don't need to be paid at the end of the drive-through.


 
Nahit Karataşlı
Nahit Karataşlı  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 06:11
English to Turkish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
a different standpoint Nov 13, 2011

Dear Nicole,

Nicole Schnell wrote:

Here are my rules that I have established for my company:

1. I am not a laborer


You may not be a laborer, but most of the translators are laborers (white collar).


2. My client are not ghouls, otherwise they wouldn't be my clients


Misunderstood, I do not have any ghoul.
Few days ago, I received a job offer containing many files on SLAvery conditions and 60-day payment term that is 90 days in fact.
They offer jobs and I refuse them, but there are people having troubles with them.


3. Always distinguish between customers and clients: Customers cost you money, clients bring you money. Figure out which ones you want to keep and which ones you simply send into the next desert.


...


4. I allow all kinds of payment terms, as long as the cash flow is right. I have agreements with clients for payment terms of up to 14 days for small amounts up to USD 499.99, 30 days for amounts of USD 500 and higher, and, yes!, I will allow payment terms of 45 days. My really special, beloved high-end clients will have a payment term of 60 days and this is just fine with me. Why? Because I am familiar with the proceedings at world market leaders. My translations have to pass at least three or four departments on different continents. It takes a month. So what? Those are the truly expensive projects, otherwise they wouldn't make such an ado. I just lean back, I am in control of my cash flow, and as soon as they are done with their internal proceedings, they send back their comments which usually consist of neat little smilies and compliments or maybe some nagging about their preference of some internal technical term, so what?


Nice to learn that you receive truly expensive projects, and control your cash flow while leaning back.

I do the same while working on, but with a little difference, I usually receive truly cheap and trivial projects as the most of the laborer translators do.


I rather have my high-paying 60-days clients that I have been attending to for so many years than any one-off customer with baby jobs at baby rates that are so low that they are paid immediately from petty cash. I am not McDonalds, I don't sell for McDonalds rates, I do not provide McDonald's kind of services and I don't need to be paid at the end of the drive-through.


We, the laborer translators, mostly provide snack food type services; therefore, I regard MacDonald's services as if they were real food with high prices, so when I’m paid for that rate it means a small fortune for me. Giant baby!

Stay much more well,


 
Dmitrie Highduke
Dmitrie Highduke  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 05:11
Member (2008)
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
Mr... Nov 14, 2011

Nahit Karataşlı wrote:

...it is exactly, obviously and totally exploitation of labor in the market.

We should NOT FORGET, the translators put bread on the table through translation services, and day by day, increasingly, these ghouls spread and offer their SLAvery conditions in this market.

We must say STOP!



Mr Lenin would rise in applause...


 
Nahit Karataşlı
Nahit Karataşlı  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 06:11
English to Turkish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Is he a Proz member? Nov 14, 2011

Hi Dmitrie,

Dmitrie Highduke wrote:

Mr Lenin would rise in applause...


Is he proz member?
If yes, free/partial/full paid?


 
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