| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Rates going down Thread poster: Hannele Marttila
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| Translators often aim too low | Nov 15, 2011 |
@Felipe
The book's already been written -- www.prosperoustranslator.com 
@Robert
I'm not a big fan of words like "fair" and "undeserved [slice of profits]" in discussions of pricing models. Too emotional and definitely open to too much interpretation.
I want to sell my services for the very highest price t... See more @Felipe
The book's already been written -- www.prosperoustranslator.com
@Robert
I'm not a big fan of words like "fair" and "undeserved [slice of profits]" in discussions of pricing models. Too emotional and definitely open to too much interpretation.
I want to sell my services for the very highest price they can command, full stop. And that requires me to invest in maintaining my specialist knowledge *but also* in prospecting and interacting with clients and potential clients. I figure that anyone who is not prepared to do that him or herself needs an intermediary to do it for them. Why not, fine.
But even then a 15% margin for all that coordination and interfacing is far too low to be sustainable, especially if you are starting from a low pricing level. Please note that I write that as a 100% freelance translator (albeit one who works almost exclusively for direct clients).
@Stephen
As pointed out at the recent ATA conference in Boston (and elsewhere, at many venues), the market (in all its sub-sub-segmented splendor) is clearly splitting into high-end and low-end. Specialized vs bulk and assimilated -- although these segments are not necessarily labeled that clearly.
(Recently a contact mentioned that she'd quoted for a quarterly newsletter, a total of 8,000 words a year, and the intermediary had come back with "I assume that is your retail price; what is your wholesale price?" which is simply comical.)
As we know, the low end is extremely price sensitive, not to mention vulnerable to competition from improved MT and so on. But if you're into tech solutions (look at Asia Online; look at Lionbridge, for heaven's sake), well, again: why not.
The high end is far more demanding, and/but requires specialist knowledge and better writing skills. Thankfully the payback is a lot higher, too.
As I see it, translation suppliers have to first become aware of the nature of the market -- including the existence of extremely attractive niches -- and then decide which market model they want to adopt. If you go high end, there's a serious upfront investment in your own skills.
There's a lot of demand out there looking for suppliers, but often translators are not very good about going out and identifying it. And as I pointed out in a comment to the blog I mentioned elsewhere, translators who have worked too long at the price-sensitive end of the market can also miss the boat by carrying along low-end attitudes and reflexes when they try to move up.
Chris
[Edited at 2011-11-15 15:04 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Vic Ward 
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:53
French to English
| Globalization | Nov 15, 2011 |
The problem in a nutshell is globalization. Not sure what the solution is unfortunately. Except a suggestion that everyone goes to their profile and increases their rates by 20%. If you look at 'average rates' charged on this site they seem pretty low, so just increase them (in your profile at least).
I also note that an agency has just posted a French to English translation job here (specialized geology text) offering the princely sum of 30 -45 GBP/1000 words ! They had had 5 offe... See more The problem in a nutshell is globalization. Not sure what the solution is unfortunately. Except a suggestion that everyone goes to their profile and increases their rates by 20%. If you look at 'average rates' charged on this site they seem pretty low, so just increase them (in your profile at least).
I also note that an agency has just posted a French to English translation job here (specialized geology text) offering the princely sum of 30 -45 GBP/1000 words ! They had had 5 offers last time I looked.
If more people would wise up and refuse to work for such derisory amounts (probably below the legal minimum wage) then things might improve. So, taking my own advice, I'm off to increase the rates in my profile ! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The same trend is observed on the translator’s Russian and Ukrainian markets in the UK | Nov 16, 2011 |
As things stand at the moment we are currently facing a new development in the translation industry, where agencies are increasingly resorting to using the services of native-speakers translators based in their countries with a view to capitalising on, as Thayenga rightly noticed, a low per capita income of the population in those countries.
Unfortunately, this trend is also observed on the translator’s Russian and Ukrainian markets in the UK. The trend is driven by the desire of agenc... See more As things stand at the moment we are currently facing a new development in the translation industry, where agencies are increasingly resorting to using the services of native-speakers translators based in their countries with a view to capitalising on, as Thayenga rightly noticed, a low per capita income of the population in those countries.
Unfortunately, this trend is also observed on the translator’s Russian and Ukrainian markets in the UK. The trend is driven by the desire of agencies to gain a profit, which they would under no circumstances have made had they had utilised the services of native Russians or Ukrainians, based in the UK. The reality is, however, that agencies have found a niche and are exploiting it to the utmost degree. Needless to say, my rates and the rates of my fellow colleagues here, in the UK, can’t match those living there.
As an example, on several occasions I have been approached by agencies that offered me a rate as low as £50 per 1000 words, whereas the current rate ranges between £70-90 per 1000 words.
I have to admit that by and large translations executed by Russian native speakers based in their country are of a high quality, as I am often commissioned proofreading of their work and find it performed to a high standard. However, this does not alter the fact that they do us a disservice by undercutting our rates.
Alas, we can’t blame them. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Derisory rates | Nov 24, 2011 |
I have just seen, on another well-known translation website, a Norwegian to English job advertised at $0.05 per word by an American company.
It was somewhat reassuring to see that only one bid had been made for this job, but what on earth are the company doing here? Are they just testing the market to see if any one is desperate enough work at this rate? It's not as if there a loads of Norwegian speakers living in lower-cost countries around the world.
I know we are operating in a fr... See more I have just seen, on another well-known translation website, a Norwegian to English job advertised at $0.05 per word by an American company.
It was somewhat reassuring to see that only one bid had been made for this job, but what on earth are the company doing here? Are they just testing the market to see if any one is desperate enough work at this rate? It's not as if there a loads of Norwegian speakers living in lower-cost countries around the world.
I know we are operating in a free market, but should "translation companies" be able to advertise on translation websites at such derisory rates? How is this helping the status of the professional translator?
Rant over! ▲ Collapse
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Gema Garcia
Spain
Local time: 15:53
Spanish to French
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| working for a 50% of my translation? | Nov 24, 2011 |
Garazi Alberdi wrote:
I was asked my rates from Spanish to Basque and when they recieved my e-mail, the company replied immediately telling me that they couldn't accept my budget ( I was asking for 0,08EUR per word). Surprisingly, the person who was telling me that I was kind of crazy had nothing to do with translation, he is a businessman and doesn't know anything about the time and effort that requires a good translation.
I am quite new in the business and I am willing to have big projects and work as a professional translator, but I would never accept low rates (the company was offering me 0,04EUR per word) because I have to pay my bills and our work must be appreciated.
I am starting as translator of French to Spanish and I don´t know very well how to deal with rates. A formation enterprise has a client who needs a project translation but they propose to me to work at 50%. It has surprised me because we work with rates and no one should propose that...But what can I do? Do I have to incraese my rates? I would not like to lose the opportunity...
| | | | | On missing opportunities | Nov 24, 2011 |
Gema Garcia wrote:
I am starting as translator of French to Spanish and I don´t know very well how to deal with rates. A formation enterprise has a client who needs a project translation but they propose to me to work at 50%. It has surprised me because we work with rates and no one should propose that...But what can I do? Do I have to incraese my rates? I would not like to lose the opportunity...
Hi Gema,
you would not like to miss your opportunity to what? Working at half your usual rate? Remember that if you agree to work at half your rates at the beginning, it will be extremely hard, if not impossible, to raise your rate to your usual one later on.
Another idea would be: if you can persuade your electricity and gas provider, as well as your local grocer, petrol station (or public transport service) etc. to halve their prices, you might as well agree to work at 50%. Otherwise you may find yourself working day and night, struggling to pay your bills all the time.
| | | | kalinka
Local time: 15:53
English to Spanish
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| just an incredible thing | Jul 26, 2012 |
mari pet wrote:
The other day I have been seeing the profiles and rates of persons which have been awarded with jobs on another translation portal (just discovered that they sometimes mention the awarded translator). And understood why I have never received job from there. In my language combination it was around 7 EUR per standard page, in other combinations I saw rates bellow 6 EUR per page.
No comment.
I have no idea how comes, it is not cheap in Slovakia anymore, and the waiter wedges in Bratislava could be above these rates. I really ask myself who these "translators" are?
| | | | | Brace yourself for worse times to come! | Jul 27, 2012 |
Hannele Marttila wrote:
We all seem to agree - I for one am turning down a lot of work presently which is rather worrying as ends must be met.
In this economic climate we should be raising our rates as everything, certainly in the UK, is going up by 5-20% (my daily newspaper, butter, milk etc.).
Dear Hannele,
Let me give you an honest point of view from a respectable, EN 15038 certified agency which has existed over 25 years. We still pay good rates to the translators we work with, and pay invoices within 30 days. And we still and will always offer high quality translations to our clients.
HOWEVER:
Competition has never been as fierce as this year! Europe has been in crisis since 2009 and every year it gets worse, with so far this year being the worst. There are not that many translation jobs as companies in all sorts of markets are affected by the crisis and the first thing they save money on is "translation costs".
So, although we offer excellent service, high quality translations and are a reliable agency with a good reputation, we have to offer all these things at ever more decreasing prices, just to stay alive, so to speak.
It's unfortunately a fact that many clients can't differentiate between a mediocre translation or a good or excellent one, and there are also many companies that just don't care about quality: they just want the translation job done.
Luckily for us we have many loyal clients that "understand" and demand high quality translations, but such clients are difficult to find and to hold on to in these economic bad times. And the number of orders of our clients keeps dropping as well as I explained in the beginning. Many companies such as legal firms, advertising agencies, building companies, all kinds of technical companies are having hard times, resulting in a dramatic decrease in translation jobs offered.
The low-paying (Internet) agencies are indeed booming, because they also offer low rates to end clients, but I'm sure the quality they offer is also low, as are the margins they have to live from. So how reliable are such companies? Many companies that work with them don't seem to care.
You write that you are "turning down a lot of work presently which is rather worrying as ends must be met". So you see: we (the agencies) as "you" (the translators) all have the same dilemma: in order to receive jobs we have to compete with other agencies/translators. Even if that means that we are competing with lessor quality agencies/translators.
It's a matter of: How bad do you need the job?
Yes: Ends must be met, and that could mean that for now you have to accept jobs at a decreased rate. Having work is better than always sticking to principles, not?
And when better times come, or end clients understand the quality we deliver, we can all start to slowly increase our rates again.
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| Hot topic; yet not many comments | Jul 31, 2012 |
I was hoping more translators/agencies would engage in the discussion...
Anyone?
| | | | 564354352 (X)
Denmark
Local time: 15:53
Danish to English
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| Stick to your guns | Jul 31, 2012 |
I disagree entirely with Rifraf that it is time for all of us to reduce our rates.
Our rates are generally far too low as it is, considering that we are (mostly) academics with many years of education behind us and many with a lot of years' experience, too.
So yes, the amount of translation jobs may be decreasing, but if on top of that we also reduce our rates, we will really end up struggling.
A good Biblical principle is this: a worker is worth his wages. We are... See more I disagree entirely with Rifraf that it is time for all of us to reduce our rates.
Our rates are generally far too low as it is, considering that we are (mostly) academics with many years of education behind us and many with a lot of years' experience, too.
So yes, the amount of translation jobs may be decreasing, but if on top of that we also reduce our rates, we will really end up struggling.
A good Biblical principle is this: a worker is worth his wages. We are fully worth what we charge (or should be charging). Let the agencies cut down on their own administrative costs if they can't or won't pay our fees, and let the end clients find other ways to reduce their expenses. Yes, it's tough for them, but really... that is not OUR business. We have our own businesses to look after. ▲ Collapse
| | | | John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 09:53
Member (2008)
French to English
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| Raise, don't lower rates | Aug 1, 2012 |
Lower rates? I have been far busier this year than ever before. I raised my rates to try to cool things down a bit. What happened? Even busier... I seem to be turning something down every day.
It's been said before but it's worth saying it again. Raise your rates. Yes, you may lose some clients that can't pay those rates. But it seems to attract a different class of client, a group of clients that expects to pay more. Difficult times just mean more paperwork (bankruptcies, m... See more Lower rates? I have been far busier this year than ever before. I raised my rates to try to cool things down a bit. What happened? Even busier... I seem to be turning something down every day.
It's been said before but it's worth saying it again. Raise your rates. Yes, you may lose some clients that can't pay those rates. But it seems to attract a different class of client, a group of clients that expects to pay more. Difficult times just mean more paperwork (bankruptcies, mergers and acquisitions, companies boosting their marketing efforts, changing government programs, etc.) all of which have a certain proportion needing translation.
Of course, the quality needs to go with it to justify the higher rate. But consider that in many fields the cost of the translation is a minor cost of whatever project it's for. A legal document, a contract, a project document - these are all projects with budgets in the millions; a translation cost of a few thousand dollars/euros isn't a very significant part of the project's cost. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Neil Coffey
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:53
French to English
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| You'd think, but... | Aug 1, 2012 |
John Fossey wrote:
many fields the cost of the translation is a minor cost of whatever project it's for. A legal document, a contract, a project document - these are all projects with budgets in the millions; a translation cost of a few thousand dollars/euros isn't a very significant part of the project's cost.
You'd think that... but you'd also be amazed how many clients squabble for a 100 dollar discount on the translation of a contract presumably worth millions of dollars!
I've even had people tell me they'll "have to take the risk" on the purchase of million euro properties because they "can't afford" to pay a few hundred euros for a translation of the sales contract...
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Hannele Marttila
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:53
Finnish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Agree with Gitte, JOhn and Neil but disagree with rifraf | Aug 1, 2012 |
I disagree with rifraf completely as well. A rather unfortunate ID too. I would agree with Gitte, John and Neil. I have been busier than ever. I have not accepted work at ridiculous prices but raised my prices and indeed, have more work than I can do. I turn down any offers of substandard fees. As Gitte says, we are (mostly) professionals with a lot of academic qualifications and experience and we should be paid accordingly.
There are always some translation agencies that try to use Rifraf... See more I disagree with rifraf completely as well. A rather unfortunate ID too. I would agree with Gitte, John and Neil. I have been busier than ever. I have not accepted work at ridiculous prices but raised my prices and indeed, have more work than I can do. I turn down any offers of substandard fees. As Gitte says, we are (mostly) professionals with a lot of academic qualifications and experience and we should be paid accordingly.
There are always some translation agencies that try to use Rifraf’s justification for low rates in order to boost their own profits. Don’t go there.
There is a lot of work for the competent quality translator at good rates. My concern originally was that starting out translators would feel compelled to accept untenable fees. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Stick to this Basic Business Law | Aug 1, 2012 |
Never ever lower your rate and reject politely but strongly any offer you deem indecent.
| | | | | Interesting negotiation tactic... | Aug 8, 2012 |
This discussion puts me in mind of a tip I was once told on a negotiation skills course. When your initial offer is rejected, INCREASE it not decrease it. It worked for the trainer when he was putting in an offer for a house because it panicked the owner. I realise that there is a lot more competition in the translation market, but an interesting tactic perhaps nonetheless!
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