Right country interest rate for the debt of a dishonest client.
Thread poster: yugoslavia

yugoslavia
United States
Local time: 15:40
English to Spanish
+ ...
Feb 14, 2012

Dear colleagues,

I’m writing because I would like to get assistance with some information.

I’m a Spanish translator and I used the services of a European collection agency to collect the debt from a debtor who has translation company offices in Estonia and France. He owed me for a document translation that I did for his company since December 2009, but he didn’t have intentions to pay me and I had to hire the services of a collection agency to collect my payment from them. I'm not happy with their performance.

I don't think they did the interest rate calculations well and they didn't include all the expenses I had in order to collect the money from this dishonest client such as phone calls to Estonia and France.

I also spent money on mail service. I sent a contract to them around 16 pages long to find out later that they were dishonest.


The CEO of the translation company closed the translation company in Estonia and he returned to his home country France. He is presently living in Tours, France and it is the place where he was hiding when the collection agency in Germany found him. When they collected the money of the debt, he was away of Estonia for more than one year.

There were two countries involved in this debt case and I don't really know what country interest rate applies to this case. He had the company in Estonia in 12-2009 when he hired me to do this translation. He came back to France around 10-2010 and he is presently living in Tours, France, now in the year 2012.


I’m wondering what country interest rate applies to this debt, What interest will be? the interest rate of France or the interest rate of Estonia? Or maybe both of them?

I would like also to know if The Bank of Paris may have the information for commercial French debts or other French bank or French government organization.

Please let me know when you find out something. Spanish translators and legal experts can also write me in Spanish.

Thanks a lot.

Yugoslavia


 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 20:40
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
We need to get some facts straight Feb 14, 2012

Hello,

Sorry to hear you're having problems getting paid. There are some things I don't quite understand in your posting, so perhaps we can try to clear them up.

yugoslavia wrote:
I’m a Spanish translator and I used the services of a European collection agency to collect the debt from a debtor who has translation company offices in Estonia and France.

So, the debt collectors have already done their job and got (some) of your money for you? Is that right?

I'm not happy with their performance.

The performance of the translation client or the debt collectors?

I sent a contract to them around 16 pages long to find out later that they were dishonest.

You wrote and sent a 16-page contract and sent it to the debt collection company? Is that right? Did they sign it?

The CEO of the translation company closed the translation company in Estonia and he returned to his home country France. He is presently living in Tours, France and it is the place where he was hiding when the collection agency in Germany found him.

That sounds as though the collection agency went to extreme lengths to get your money back, even though the company had closed and this person no longer had lmegal liability to pay. You were lucky, by the sound of it.

[quote]I’m wondering what country interest rate applies to this debt, What interest will be? the interest rate of France or the interest rate of Estonia?[quote]
Well, France certainly doesn't apply as that's simply where the person is living. But, if you have already received the payment from the debt collectors, that's the end of it, isn't it? I doubt very much whether you can go back to your ex-client and demand more.

I would like also to know if The Bank of Paris may have the information for commercial French debts or other French bank or French government organization.

What makes this a French debt? Neither you nor your client was registered in France at the time of the invoice.

Reading it through again, it isn't really clear whether you were suing an Estonian company or a French one. I guess that's the most important question to clear up. What was the address on the invoice? Estonia or France? What was the registered address of the company you were claiming against? Estonia or France?

Maybe others can help if we can get these points clear.

Sheila


 

Natalie  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 21:40
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...

MODERATOR
Hi "yugoslavia" Feb 14, 2012

If I may suggest something:

This is not the first time you are asking for help in dealing with doubtful outsourcers.

PLEASE check the Blue Board (as well as other resources) BEFORE accepting any jobs from new outsourcers. This will save your time and money.

Best,
Natalia


 

yugoslavia
United States
Local time: 15:40
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Reply to your Message Feb 15, 2012

Hi Mrs. Robinson,

I’m sorry about the delay getting back to you. I have been sick with a cold. The debt collection agency did their job but I’m not completely sure if they were honest with me with the amount of money that they collected from my debtor. I noticed that the amount of money they collected was less than the amount of money that we agreed at the beginning.

I wrote them a letter about this but they haven’t answered me yet. I haven’t claimed the money yet because I want to be sure that they collected the right amount before claiming the money. I’m also checking the debt collection agency business reputation in Europe with two government agencies in Germany.

I presented my invoice to the Estonian translation company one year and 4 months before the French CEO closed the Estonian company. I think the reason why he decided to pay my collection agency was that I presented criminal charges against them with The Estonian authorities including the prosecutor’s office of Tallinn. I also accused them of on-line fraud with another Law enforcement Estonian agency.

Mrs. Robinson, this terrible man was not only not paying translators but he was also blocking their e-mail addresses and Messenger accounts. After that he was writing them and it was telling them to leave his employees alone without caring about people’s time and hard work. He was sued several times in the Estonian court due to dishonesty

The company that I sent the 16 pages contract was the company from Estonia. Yes, the company was registered in Estonia at the time that I did the translation. The CEO has addresses in both countries Estonia and France but the debt collection agency decided to try to collect the money in France first before they decided to try to collect the money in Estonia.

The address I used in my invoice was the company address in Estonia but when the debt collection agency took the debt they used the home address of the CEO in Tours, France.
Here is the link to my previous Forum Posting where you also answered:

http://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/172129-non_paying_customer_from_estonia.html

Please write me if you have any more questions or doubts.

Thanks for all your help.

Yugoslavia

























quote]Sheila Wilson wrote:

Hello,

Sorry to hear you're having problems getting paid. There are some things I don't quite understand in your posting, so perhaps we can try to clear them up.

yugoslavia wrote:
I’m a Spanish translator and I used the services of a European collection agency to collect the debt from a debtor who has translation company offices in Estonia and France.

So, the debt collectors have already done their job and got (some) of your money for you? Is that right?

I'm not happy with their performance.

The performance of the translation client or the debt collectors?

I sent a contract to them around 16 pages long to find out later that they were dishonest.

You wrote and sent a 16-page contract and sent it to the debt collection company? Is that right? Did they sign it?

The CEO of the translation company closed the translation company in Estonia and he returned to his home country France. He is presently living in Tours, France and it is the place where he was hiding when the collection agency in Germany found him.

That sounds as though the collection agency went to extreme lengths to get your money back, even though the company had closed and this person no longer had lmegal liability to pay. You were lucky, by the sound of it.

[quote]I’m wondering what country interest rate applies to this debt, What interest will be? the interest rate of France or the interest rate of Estonia?

Well, France certainly doesn't apply as that's simply where the person is living. But, if you have already received the payment from the debt collectors, that's the end of it, isn't it? I doubt very much whether you can go back to your ex-client and demand more.

I would like also to know if The Bank of Paris may have the information for commercial French debts or other French bank or French government organization.

What makes this a French debt? Neither you nor your client was registered in France at the time of the invoice.

Reading it through again, it isn't really clear whether you were suing an Estonian company or a French one. I guess that's the most important question to clear up. What was the address on the invoice? Estonia or France? What was the registered address of the company you were claiming against? Estonia or France?

Maybe others can help if we can get these points clear.

Sheila


 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 20:40
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Look for better clients now Feb 15, 2012

You've clearly encountered a thoroughly nasty person. Unfortunately, they are to be found in every country, though they are very much in the minority, thankfully. I applaud your efforts to bring this person to justice, to obtain payment for your work and to warn others.

However, it seems to me that you've done all you can, and I doubt that the authorities are going to spend to much time and effort helping you. Whatever this person has done to you and others, he scarcely rates as a major criminal. Surely you need to move on, don't you? You must be spending an awful lot of time on chasing an extra few cents. Certainly, you have a right to them, but at what cost? Perhaps it would be best to take what's on offer and turn over the page.

I do hope future clients will provide for happier experience.

Sheila


 

yugoslavia
United States
Local time: 15:40
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Additional information. Feb 16, 2012

Hi Mrs. Wilson,

Thanks for your suggestions but we are talking about several hundreds of Dollars, not a few cents. The debt collection agency and I agreed a commission of around 20% plus interest and other expenses I had in order to collect this debt, such as phone calls made to Estonia and France.They also added these expenses.

I'm also disappointed with the debt collection agency. I wrote them an e-mail message around two weeks ago and I asked them for an explanation of the amount of money they collected. I asked them why they collected less money than we agreed but I haven't got an answer so far. I contacted the Estonian Government agencies because I was very upset. This man made two translators to translate two websites completely free of charge and he took advantage of translators from poor countries.

Do you still believe that the interest will belong to Estonia, even the CEO was already in France when they collected the money?

Thanks.

Yugoslavia


 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 20:40
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Interest Feb 16, 2012

Regarding your question about interest, I can only say what I believe to be true, though I am absolutely no expert in these matters

I believe that where a person is living has no bearing on the interest due on an invoice. You invoiced a company, with a registered address. That address determines the courts to be used etc. Interest on your invoice has more to do with your own address. I would charge French interest on invoices I send anywhere in the world and would continue to do so, at least temporarily, if I leave France because I will still be issuing invoices relating to my French-registered company.

But interest rates are so low these days, is it worth losing any sleep over? Certainly, you have a right to it, but you also need to put this behind you now, don't you, rather than worrying about interest and phone calls? Every minute you spend on this now is worth a minute's income - won't new clients prove more profitable in the end?

Sheila


 

yugoslavia
United States
Local time: 15:40
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Feb 17, 2012

Hi Mrs. Wilson,

Thank you so much for your information. I will wait for also other replies about the country interest rate. I also contacted the Estonian Chamber of Commerce and The Bank of Estonia for more information.

Thanks for your advice. I just worked very hard in order to deliver this translation on-time. This terrible man called us at 5:53 am and he told me to have this translation ready in only 5 hours and a half.

Thanks again.

Yugoslavia







Sheila Wilson wrote:

Regarding your question about interest, I can only say what I believe to be true, though I am absolutely no expert in these matters

I believe that where a person is living has no bearing on the interest due on an invoice. You invoiced a company, with a registered address. That address determines the courts to be used etc. Interest on your invoice has more to do with your own address. I would charge French interest on invoices I send anywhere in the world and would continue to do so, at least temporarily, if I leave France because I will still be issuing invoices relating to my French-registered company.

But interest rates are so low these days, is it worth losing any sleep over? Certainly, you have a right to it, but you also need to put this behind you now, don't you, rather than worrying about interest and phone calls? Every minute you spend on this now is worth a minute's income - won't new clients prove more profitable in the end?

Sheila


 


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