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Agency who doesn't pay for the cancellation caused by lateness
Thread poster: Apollo Sil Lo Jin
Apollo Sil Lo Jin
Italy
Italian to Korean
+ ...
May 31, 2012

A company, has just informed me the cancellation of the purchase order because I submit the work late for 10 hours.

I agree with it and it might cause a reduction of 20% or 30% of the fare.

But I can't prove whether the lateness was really such a big trouble to even cancel the project.

How can you guarantee yourself the payment before starting to work?

Help me to get the payment from this company, agency.

Kind regards
sillo


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Russell Jones  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:27
Italian to English
Moderator's note May 31, 2012

Dear Sillo

I have removed the name of the agency from the title of your post as naming of specific outsourcers is contrary to site rule: http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/8#8

Good luck with your claim for payment.

[Edited at 2012-05-31 13:59 GMT]


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Natalia Mackevich  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:27
Member (2009)
English to Russian
+ ...
Have you signed an agreement... May 31, 2012

...when you started to work with them? Cancellation and payment issues should've been mentioned in an agreement if you had any. Otherwise, accept it as a good lesson for you (find out and/or discuss all terms and conditions in advance AND always meet your deadlines).
Good luck!


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Anna Spanoudaki-Thurm  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:27
Member (2009)
German to Greek
+ ...
For me, it depends... May 31, 2012

One important factor is the size of the project. If it was a small urgent job, then no payment seems logical to me. If you are ten hours late in translating several tens of thousands of words over several days, then a deduction of x% seems fair.

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Vladimír Hoffman  Identity Verified
Slovakia
Local time: 13:27
Member (2009)
English to Slovak
+ ...
Well, it depends. May 31, 2012

I can imagine a situation, when a client cancels entire project due to late delivery. If it was a case of long-term bigger project, you could argue that compared to entire time needed for the job your delay was not so big as to make the project totally useless, but I fear that even in such a case you are the one who have to bear a burden of proof. In the case of overnight work, you practically have no chance. Of course, first you should study contractual conditions of your coooperation with the agency to ascertain if the agency can fully reject a delayed work. If so, you are thrown on the agency's mercy. You can sue, but if the agency proves that they lost the job due to your delay, you will loss your case.

Apollo Sil Lo Jin wrote:

A company, has just informed me the cancellation of the purchase order because I submit the work late for 10 hours.

I agree with it and it might cause a reduction of 20% or 30% of the fare.

But I can't prove whether the lateness was really such a big trouble to even cancel the project.

How can you guarantee yourself the payment before starting to work?

Help me to get the payment from this company, agency.

Kind regards
sillo


Direct link
 
Apollo Sil Lo Jin
Italy
Italian to Korean
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I have doubts on you. May 31, 2012

Anna Spanoudaki-Thurm wrote:

One important factor is the size of the project. If it was a small urgent job, then no payment seems logical to me. If you are ten hours late in translating several tens of thousands of words over several days, then a deduction of x% seems fair.


If you were the one, you would just give up the money which you think is small. I have doubts on it.


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texjax DDS PhD  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:27
Member (2006)
English to Italian
+ ...
Did you tell them? May 31, 2012

Did you inform them that you were going to deliver the translation late?

Regards,


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Paula Hernández
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:27
English to Spanish
+ ...
Being late is not professional May 31, 2012

And much less by 10 hours!

Even if it were a large project, you should have known beforehand how long it would take you to translate it. And if you realized at some point that it was going to take you longer, you should have informed your client.

As Anna said, if it was a small project, I would not think about fighting for a small sum (you were 10 hours late!) and if it was a big one, I would consider a % reduction to be fair...

BTW, your profile says you're always on time!


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:27
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Very, very important point May 31, 2012

texjax DDS PhD wrote:
Did you inform them that you were going to deliver the translation late?

If you kept them fully informed (BEFORE the deadline) and gave a reasonable reason, then they should either have cancelled the project immediately (which would have been a loss to you, but that's business) or accepted the delay, in which case you fulfilled your part of the contract, although maybe a percentage reduction would have been necessary to cover urgent proofreading and/or penalty clauses in the end-client contract.

If you deliver the text, and they then deliver it to their client who subsequently uses it, then they are liable to pay you. Can you prove your text was used?

Sheila


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:27
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Indeed May 31, 2012

Anna Spanoudaki-Thurm wrote:
One important factor is the size of the project. If it was a small urgent job, then no payment seems logical to me. If you are ten hours late in translating several tens of thousands of words over several days, then a deduction of x% seems fair.

My opinion too. Many jobs are urgent translations for a meeting, a congress, or a trip and become useless if not delivered on time.

[Edited at 2012-05-31 16:53 GMT]


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:27
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Questions May 31, 2012

Apollo Sil Lo Jin wrote:
A company, has just informed me the cancellation of the purchase order because I submit the work late for 10 hours.

Just so that we don't feel ridiculous later on, can you tell us about the size of the project and whether the customer gave any indication of urgency?


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Anna Spanoudaki-Thurm  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:27
Member (2009)
German to Greek
+ ...
Yes, I would. May 31, 2012

Apollo Sil Lo Jin wrote:

Anna Spanoudaki-Thurm wrote:

One important factor is the size of the project. If it was a small urgent job, then no payment seems logical to me. If you are ten hours late in translating several tens of thousands of words over several days, then a deduction of x% seems fair.


If you were the one, you would just give up the money which you think is small. I have doubts on it.


That's ok. I can live with it


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Armorel Young  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:27
German to English
Another agency ... May 31, 2012

... currently being discussed on a different forum has terms and conditions that give it the right to reduce payment to the translator by up to 10% if the translation is up to an hour late, up to 50% if it is 1 - 4 hours late, and up to 100% if it is more than four hours late. Under those conditions, a translation 10 hours late almost certainly wouldn't get paid for at all.

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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:27
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Fair enough! May 31, 2012

Armorel Young wrote:
... currently being discussed on a different forum has terms and conditions that give it the right to reduce payment to the translator by up to 10% if the translation is up to an hour late, up to 50% if it is 1 - 4 hours late, and up to 100% if it is more than four hours late. Under those conditions, a translation 10 hours late almost certainly wouldn't get paid for at all.

Sounds perfectly fine. I would sign these conditions if, in exchange, I could be paid 10% more if they are 1 day late in the payment, 50% more if 1-4 days late, or 100% if more than 4 days late. Only fair, only fair!


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Philippe Etienne  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:27
Member
English to French
I've actually read such terms from a prospect... Jun 2, 2012

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

Armorel Young wrote:
... currently being discussed on a different forum has terms and conditions that give it the right to reduce payment to the translator by up to 10% if the translation is up to an hour late, up to 50% if it is 1 - 4 hours late, and up to 100% if it is more than four hours late. Under those conditions, a translation 10 hours late almost certainly wouldn't get paid for at all.

Sounds perfectly fine. I would sign these conditions if, in exchange, I could be paid 10% more if they are 1 day late in the payment, 50% more if 1-4 days late, or 100% if more than 4 days late. Only fair, only fair!

...who will remain a prospect forever.

It is contrary to my idea of a healthy business relationship, even balanced with Tomás' coercitive (and tongue-in-cheek) measures in case of late payment!

Sounds like rules enforced in a kindergarten.

Back to the topic, without specifics, I'd say that a 10-hour delay is a lot, and it is possible that the translation has become useless (press release, material for a meeting/event...). But there should have been enough communication on both sides to avoid that.

Philippe


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