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PayPal deadlock
Thread poster: Khalid Hantash

Khalid Hantash  Identity Verified
Palestine
Member (2007)
Arabic to English
+ ...
Oct 1, 2012

Dear ALL,

I live in a country (Palestine Territory) where PayPal payments is not accepted. I tried all the methods and made several personal visits to almost all the banks in the country but nobody could help me in this issue. I feel depressed when I won a translation bid with PayPal the only method of payment. MoneyBookers works well in my country without any problems. I have been using since 2004.


I kindly ask for your suggestions in this respect.

My regards,

Khalid


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 07:27
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
It must be really frustrating Oct 1, 2012

I really sympathise, Khalid. Unfortunately, I don't know what you or others can do about it.

I once worked with a client out your way and the bank transfer fell foul of American sanctions. It took months to sort it out and even then I only got paid because his wife visited some third country. Crazy situation! He wasn't a terrorist and I wasn't an arms dealer, for heaven's sake! I felt sorrier for him than I felt for myself - at least it was an out-of-the-ordinary occurrence for me. But of course it has put me off dealing with clients from affected countries.

Perhaps ProZ.com would consider setting up some sort of system just for people like you. I don't think they really want to go down that road, and that's OK for the rest of us because we have lots of alternatives. Anyway, they'd have to charge for it so I don't think the rest of us would really want it anyway. But for you it could mean the difference between a world-wide client base and a very limited one geographically. Might be worth suggesting it to them via a support ticket and/or the "ideas" tab in the top-right corner of the screen.


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Khalid Hantash  Identity Verified
Palestine
Member (2007)
Arabic to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
PayPal deadlock Oct 1, 2012

Dear Sheila Wilson,

Thank you for your honest feeling.

In your precious suggestion you are translating what I had in mind along time ago though I felt it would be silly if I put it forward. Now you are really encouraging me to do it. perhaps I could find a satisfactory response.

BUT ...

Some colleagues helped me in transferring money from PayPal to my own Monybookers several times. When I send my invoice, it usually takes 45 days for the payment to be processed and then another 30 days at least to be received in Moneybookers from a colleague's PayPal account plus a week for bank transfer (not to say how embarrassed you would feel to inquire the colleague about payment status). This way I don't even taste my hard work. Also, some payments are too small - say up to $ 100, others may reach $ 1000. You also know the charges at each step.

If this would be the case with any suggestion from PROZ - I mean the delay over a delay, then it won't help much.

I suggest a PROZ private bank in some way for translators like me. I know there are hundreds if not thousands of translators in the Middle East and other countries in Asia who seek help to end this deadlock.

I hope one day we can find a solution!

Thank you again for your wonderful support.

All regards,

Khalid


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 07:27
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Wouldn't need to be a delay Oct 1, 2012

Khalid Hantash wrote:
Some colleagues helped me in transferring money from PayPal to my own Monybookers several times. When I send my invoice, it usually takes 45 days for the payment to be processed and then another 30 days at least to be received in Moneybookers from a colleague's PayPal account plus a week for bank transfer (not to say how embarrassed you would feel to inquire the colleague about payment status). This way I don't even taste my hard work. Also, some payments are too small - say up to $ 100, others may reach $ 1000. You also know the charges at each step.

If this would be the case with any suggestion from PROZ - I mean the delay over a delay, then it won't help much.


It's always awkward when people do you a favour and it doesn't work 100%, but ProZ.com wouldn't be doing you a favour - they'd presumably want to take a commission, much like PayPal do. But they'd contract to do it within reasonable deadlines and for a certain, published, fee.

That's if they ever agree to do it at all.


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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:27
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Hi Khalid Oct 1, 2012

Khalid Hantash wrote:

I suggest a PROZ private bank in some way for translators like me.


On various occasions I have suggested that Proz should set up its own alternative to PayPal and Moneybookers (my suggested name is ProzPay) dedicated to translators and operated on a not-for-profit basis.

So far nobody has taken up my suggestion but I hope eventually they will.

I don't know if the following helps, but I have found a list of international correspondents with the Bank of Palestine. Here it is: http://tinyurl.com/8oh97lf

You might also find some help via Interpal, here:

http://www.interpal.org/content.aspx?pageID=13.


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Madeleine MacRae Klintebo  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:27
Swedish to English
+ ...
To those proposing a ProZ Bank Oct 1, 2012

Do you have any idea of the regulations and auditing they would have to comply with? Not to mention the costs and having to subscribe to some kind of banking guarantee system which would ensure your money was protected in case of this "ProZ Bank" going into administration.

Need I continue?


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Vladimír Hoffman  Identity Verified
Slovakia
Local time: 08:27
Member (2009)
English to Slovak
+ ...
Did you consider Oct 1, 2012

opening a bank account in some neigboring country and creating new PayPal based on credit card (one with very low will be sufficient) issued by the bank? You could then transfer money from PayPal to your account in the foreign bank and then transfer them from the account to your domestic bank (permanent order can be arranged too).
Of course, entire transaction is based on if you can open an account in a foreign bank.

Khalid Hantash wrote:

Dear Sheila Wilson,

Thank you for your honest feeling.

In your precious suggestion you are translating what I had in mind along time ago though I felt it would be silly if I put it forward. Now you are really encouraging me to do it. perhaps I could find a satisfactory response.

BUT ...

Some colleagues helped me in transferring money from PayPal to my own Monybookers several times. When I send my invoice, it usually takes 45 days for the payment to be processed and then another 30 days at least to be received in Moneybookers from a colleague's PayPal account plus a week for bank transfer (not to say how embarrassed you would feel to inquire the colleague about payment status). This way I don't even taste my hard work. Also, some payments are too small - say up to $ 100, others may reach $ 1000. You also know the charges at each step.

If this would be the case with any suggestion from PROZ - I mean the delay over a delay, then it won't help much.

I suggest a PROZ private bank in some way for translators like me. I know there are hundreds if not thousands of translators in the Middle East and other countries in Asia who seek help to end this deadlock.

I hope one day we can find a solution!

Thank you again for your wonderful support.

All regards,

Khalid


[Edited at 2012-10-01 21:49 GMT]


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Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:27
Hebrew to English
Do you have someone.... Oct 1, 2012

....you can trust, a colleague maybe, in another country?, who can accept the payment on paypal for you and then transfer it to you using another method (wire transfer etc).

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tinageta  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:27
English to Latvian
+ ...
A gift card? Oct 1, 2012

Once (a loooong time ago) I had a similar problem. The amount was rather small, so finally I agreed with the client that they would send me an Amazon gift card for this amount. I used it to buy some necessary dictionaries. But, of course, one cannot eat books!

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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 07:27
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Not a full bank Oct 1, 2012

Madeleine MacRae Klintebo wrote:
Do you have any idea of the regulations and auditing they would have to comply with? Not to mention the costs and having to subscribe to some kind of banking guarantee system which would ensure your money was protected in case of this "ProZ Bank" going into administration.

Need I continue?

That's why I don't think ProZ.com would want to go down this route for us all. But for those who have a real problem dealing with clients outside their country, perhaps something could be arranged. Some sort of escrow system maybe, rather than a full-blown ProZ Bank.


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Madeleine MacRae Klintebo  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:27
Swedish to English
+ ...
Would still have to be registered with the FSA in the UK Oct 1, 2012

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Some sort of escrow system maybe, rather than a full-blown ProZ Bank.


http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/psdFirmSearchForm.do

And somehow, I guess regulation might be even tighter in the US where ProZ is based.


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Neil Coffey  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:27
French to English
+ ...
Have you explored what's wrong with Moneybookers? Oct 2, 2012

Have you explored why the client won't agree to use Moneybookers?

I've used it a couple of times to pay colleagues based in countries where Paypal doesn't operate. As I recall it's slightly less convenient than Paypal because you have to explicitly "charge" your account before making a payment. But it didn't strike me as terrible.


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:27
English to German
+ ...
Moneybookers and why certain companies have been banned Oct 2, 2012

Neil Coffey wrote:

Have you explored why the client won't agree to use Moneybookers?

I've used it a couple of times to pay colleagues based in countries where Paypal doesn't operate. As I recall it's slightly less convenient than Paypal because you have to explicitly "charge" your account before making a payment. But it didn't strike me as terrible.


Moneybookers, Paypal and consorts each use their own and individual regulations in terms of e.g. online gambling. This is the reason why Moneybookers is not allowed in the US any longer: They don't comply with US online gambling laws and regulations. We can still receive money via Moneybookers but we can't send any.


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Vadim Kadyrov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 09:27
Member (2011)
English to Russian
+ ...
The same situation is in the former Oct 2, 2012

USSR countries.

The only thing I would suggest is just to reject any offer that involves Paypal.
You have two other options - direct bank transfer + Moneybookers. Believe me, that`s a lot.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 08:27
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Perhaps just a page on ProZwiki would help Oct 2, 2012

Sheila Wilson wrote:
Perhaps ProZ.com would consider setting up some sort of system just for people like you. ...


I agree that ProZ.com should help support translators located in regions where services are limited. But I think the best way to do that is to have a page or pages on ProZwiki that explains the various online payment systems available for translators, and offer some advice.

We often get questions about which online service providers may be used here and there. Something written down, by ProZ.com members who have experience with it, or who have googled more extensively than just one or two pages, would be useful.

For example, this list may include some services useful to many translators.

Asking colleagues to transfer money isn't always a good idea, because they may trigger their countries' money laundering laws without realising it or intending to.


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