Late payment with false claims
Thread poster: aiaiushi
aiaiushi
United States
Local time: 04:12
Japanese
Oct 25, 2013

Hello. I have been working with this company for several years, small transcription jobs here and there. No money problems with them so far until now. But things changed once the payment hit over $500.

They used to pay me on time but this time, they didn't. I contacted them to know what's going on. Then, they told me that they can't send me money through Paypal anymore because Paypal fee is too much for them to pay even though any payments were made through Paypal for years. Okay, I understand their situation (but I was wondering why they didn't notify me about it before the deadline date of my payment). So, I sent my bank account info to them so that they can send payments to my bank account instead of using Paypal.

Now, they are telling me that they even haven't received my invoice yet... They didn't tell me about this (no invoice) when they told me about Paypal issues. I did send my invoice attached to my e-mail by their set deadline (5th, every month) last month. They have an automated e-mail system to confirm that they received my e-mail and I did receive this confirmation e-mail. So, I forwarded my e-mail with this invoice attached which I sent last month to show that I DID send my invoice by deadline. Then, they told me that I just attached the invoice NOW to disguise as if I sent it last month!

It reflects to me that they keep making excuses not to pay, so I've stopped accepting any job offers from them for now. They seem very frustrated because I am now refusing to work for them. I am starting to feel a bit paranoid that any companies could say "Well, we didn't receive your invoice. So, you will have to wait another month to receive your payment." What can I do to establish a solid proof that I sent invoice on time for future?


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:12
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
That's the first thing to do, IMO Oct 25, 2013

aiaiushi wrote:
It reflects to me that they keep making excuses not to pay, so I've stopped accepting any job offers from them for now.


It doesn't sound to me as though it has anything to do with PayPal, bank transfers or invoices. Those are just delaying tactics. I think they more likely have cash-flow problems. Or maybe they are the disreputable type of company that avoids potential cash-flow problems by stalling all suppliers who are owed more than a certain amount. Whichever reason it is, you are absolutely right in refusing further work. Why should you risk any more?

If they genuinely have problems paying, and if you are only interested in getting this payment and saying "goodbye", you need to make as much noise as possible to induce them to put you at the head of the list. OTOH, if they are actually in receivership, there's no point - all you can do is register your invoice with the official receiver. That information should be available from their country's register of companies. If you'd like to keep working for them, and they can convince you their problems are temporary, then it would be in your own best interests to help them through this sticky patch. It's sometimes best to arrange for part-payment, e.g. pay me $100 now and I'll do another $100 of work for you, but I'll need the balance by dd/mm/yy (or something like that).

What can I do to establish a solid proof that I sent invoice on time for future?

Short of sending it by registered post and getting their signature for receipt, I don't think there's anything you can do. But I really don't think that's the issue here. I'm pretty sure they know perfectly well that they received your invoice on time.


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Yolanda Broad  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:12
Member (2000)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
How to substantiate an e-mail message Oct 25, 2013

1. Please see http://www.proz.com/faq/mail#mail_headers . Use the PoBox link to learn what to do with your original message - and with the acknowledgement you received from the company.
2. Once you have the full headers, save the message somewhere on your computer
3. Attach the saved message to a message to the company. The original date and other header information will be included in the attachment.


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aiaiushi
United States
Local time: 04:12
Japanese
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Oct 26, 2013

Thank you all of you for advises. It's more clear to me now that they are having cash problems to pay workers. I will not take any more jobs from them and be more careful about saving my e-mail records.

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Gad Kohenov  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 11:12
English to Hebrew
+ ...
Give them a "1" Oct 26, 2013

On the blue Board and it that doesn't help there are collection agencies. I had a case with a company that told me: "we will pay you once the client has paid us". I gave them a "1" on the Blue Board and told them: "Pay up and I will change my feedback". It worked.
If your client is a Proz member the Blue Board feedback can change their attitude.

Gad Kohenov


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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:12
Member (2008)
Italian to English
You should never do this Oct 26, 2013

Gad Kohenov wrote:

...... I gave them a "1" on the Blue Board and told them: "Pay up and I will change my feedback". It worked.



If you give a bad agency a "1" as a way of persuading them to pay, and then change your rating to a positive one after payment, you are misleading all future translators who consult the BlueBoard to check out the reliability of that agency.

Please never do that. It may get you, personally, paid, but it undermines the credibility of the BlueBoard system for everyone else.

[Edited at 2013-10-26 09:23 GMT]


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Simona Micutari  Identity Verified
Sweden
English to Romanian
+ ...
Unbelievable Oct 26, 2013

I can't believe that some agencies can behave this way! If they are having cash flow problems, they clearly need to adjust their business strategy and solve these problems internally. It's unacceptable to keep suppliers waiting and make up excuses for delaying their payment. If I were you, I wouldn't trust them anymore and would prefer to work with serious, successful companies instead.

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Joakim Braun  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 10:12
German to Swedish
+ ...
No Oct 26, 2013

No, they only need to do this if translators initiate small claims procedures, so that the company ends up in court if it doesn't pay.

Otherwise, nonpayment to translators becomes a workable and indeed profitable part of business strategy.


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Steven Segaert  Identity Verified
Estonia
Local time: 11:12
Member (2012)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Personal contact Oct 26, 2013

If at all possible, I would first try to call your contact person with the company. A phone call and an open conversation can go a long way.

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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 10:12
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Yes, but... Oct 26, 2013

Yolanda Broad wrote:
3. Attach the saved message to a message to the company. The original date and other header information will be included in the attachment.


Yes, but that doesn't prove that the original message contained an attachment.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 10:12
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
I agree with Sheila and with Tom Oct 26, 2013

Sheila Wilson wrote:
aiaiushi wrote:
What can I do to establish a solid proof that I sent invoice on time for future?

Short of sending it by registered post and getting their signature for receipt, I don't think there's anything you can do.


I agree.

In business affairs, trust and good faith is everything, and if you can't convince them that you sent the invoice, then my suggestion is to simply resend the invoice with today's date. If the agency is unwilling to admit to something that is the truth, then you won't be able to get them to admit the truth by showering them with evidence. It is not worth your time to pursue the argument about whether or not you have sent the invoice.

In answer to your initial question, though, I can tell you that since I use Gmail, I'm able to make a screenshot of not only my e-mail but also of their reply to my e-mail, because Gmail arranges an entire conversation on a single page, and the user can't fake the Gmail thread.

Tom in London wrote:
Gad Kohenov wrote:
I gave them a "1" on the Blue Board and told them: "Pay up and I will change my feedback". It worked.

If you give a bad agency a "1" as a way of persuading them to pay, and then change your rating to a positive one after payment, you are misleading all future translators who consult the BlueBoard to check out the reliability of that agency.


Not only that, you're also contravening the rules of the Blue Board, if you do that.

Rule 9 - The Blue Board may not be used to coerce. Using the Blue Board, or threatening to use the Blue Board, in such a way as to pressure an outsourcer or service provider into taking some action, is strictly prohibited.
http://www.proz.com/?sp=siterules&mode=show&category=blue_board_bb_blueboard


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aiaiushi
United States
Local time: 04:12
Japanese
TOPIC STARTER
Mr. Samuel Oct 26, 2013

Mr. Samuel is right. It still doesn't prove that I attached my invoice on the right day.
So, they are using this excuse after using "We can't afford Paypal fee."
Maybe screen capture?? I don't know...
I am getting a little paranoid that any companies could use this excuse in future.

After refusing to accept any upcoming transcription jobs, they still don't pay me so
I told them that I might leave a negative feedback on BB,
then they are becoming more and more rude to me through e-mail.
I am tired of arguing so I am going to leave a negative feedback.
This is a company from India. There are several negative feedbacks about late payments
but their record is above 4.5 so I trusted them

[2013-10-26 17:51 GMTに編集されました]


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freelance522  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 17:12
English to Chinese
+ ...
Do they accept an invoice that is sent via proz.com? Oct 27, 2013

Proz.com has a "send invoice" function (although I haven't tried it yet).
If you go to your profile, you will find this function that is listed on the upper middle-right side.
You can create your invoice again and send it via proz.com.
I assume this should leave a record on proz.com and the invoice is sent directly to the agency, so it won't be an attachment. If my guess is right, you can make a screen shot to show this record.
It just my guess. I am not sure will it work in your situation or not....


[Edited at 2013-10-27 07:47 GMT]


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