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Does Italy require date and place of birth before payment?
Thread poster: John Fossey

John Fossey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 16:13
Member (2008)
French to English
Nov 8, 2013

I have a client in Italy who has come to pay me but say they first need my date and place of birth before they can pay me. They say this is the law in Italy. I'm a bit concerned because that's the very information used by some banks to verify identity. Also, I have quite a few clients in Italy and have never been asked for this.

Is this actually a legal requirement in Italy? What should be done in this case?


 

Teresa Borges
Portugal
Local time: 21:13
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
I don't know Nov 8, 2013

but why don't you call any Canadian branch of an Italian bank and ask them? They should know...

I have a few Italian clients and I have never been asked that. It sounds fishy!

[Edited at 2013-11-08 11:49 GMT]


 

Teresa Borges
Portugal
Local time: 21:13
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
I don't know Nov 8, 2013

but why don't you call any Canadian branch of an Italian bank and ask them? They should know...

 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:13
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Here's what they are referring to Nov 8, 2013

http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/issuesandinsights/articlespublications/vat-gst-essentials/pages/italy.aspx

Edit: Sorry, had to rush off for lunch.icon_smile.gif They think they need your details, but this form is only for VAT invoices so it doesn't apply to an invoice from Canada.

[Edited at 2013-11-08 12:28 GMT]


 

Alex Lago  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:13
Member (2009)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Change banks Nov 8, 2013

John Fossey wrote:
I'm a bit concerned because that's the very information used by some banks to verify identity.


I would say that if anyone who has your name, bank account, birthplace and birth date can pretend they are you then you should think about changing banks because their identity verification procedures are non existent.


 

John Fossey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 16:13
Member (2008)
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
Exempt Nov 8, 2013

Sheila Wilson wrote:

http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/issuesandinsights/articlespublications/vat-gst-essentials/pages/italy.aspx

Edit: Sorry, had to rush off for lunch.icon_smile.gif They think they need your details, but this form is only for VAT invoices so it doesn't apply to an invoice from Canada.

[Edited at 2013-11-08 12:28 GMT]


Thanks for the link. As far as I can tell it appears that imports into Italy are exempt from the requirement. Under "Communication of sale/purchase of goods/services" in that document. From what I can see it appears to be only for transactions within Italy involving a non-resident individual.


 

2G Trad  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 22:13
Member (2000)
English to Italian
+ ...
Data probably needed, but not before payment Nov 8, 2013

John Fossey:
Sheila Wilson:

http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/issuesandinsights/articlespublications/vat-gst-essentials/pages/italy.aspx

They think they need your details, but this form is only for VAT invoices so it doesn't apply to an invoice from Canada.

Thanks for the link. As far as I can tell it appears that imports into Italy are exempt from the requirement. Under "Communication of sale/purchase of goods/services" in that document. From what I can see it appears to be only for transactions within Italy involving a non-resident individual.


Your question was: Does Italy require date and place of birth before payment?
The answer is no. Before payment.

The communication (see the link above) relevant for the year 2013 must be sent on April 2014. So, at least, your client will need your data before April 2014.
But their payment can be carried immediately.

In Italy import/export is often meant only for goods, not for services.
Import/export of goods is not included in that communication (since they are already verified by the customs when imported/exported goods get to Italy or leave Italy).
The same happens for EU transactions (goods and services) which are already verified in another communication.

As for services to/from extra-EU clients (not services to/from blacklisted countries which are already verified) I have yet to discover if they are included or not, since they are not verified elsewhere in any other communication.

In your case, you are from Canada (extra-EU vendor and non-blacklisted country), so your client
thinks (or knows something I still don't know) that your transactions should be included in next year communication and asked your data (but they have to pay you anyway).

If I get any hint, I'll get back to you.

Bye!
Gianni

[Edited at 2013-11-08 16:28 GMT]


 

2G Trad  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 22:13
Member (2000)
English to Italian
+ ...
Date probably needed, but not before payment Nov 9, 2013

John Fossey:
Sheila Wilson:

http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/issuesandinsights/articlespublications/vat-gst-essentials/pages/italy.aspx

They think they need your details, but this form is only for VAT invoices so it doesn't apply to an invoice from Canada.

Thanks for the link. As far as I can tell it appears that imports into Italy are exempt from the requirement. Under "Communication of sale/purchase of goods/services" in that document. From what I can see it appears to be only for transactions within Italy involving a non-resident individual.


Your question was: Does Italy require date and place of birth before payment?
The answer is no. Before payment.

The communication (see the link above) relevant for the year 2013 must be sent on April 2014. So, at least, your client will need your data before April 2014.
But their payment can be carried immediately.

In Italy import/export is often meant only for goods, not for services.
Import/export of goods is not included in that communication (since they are already verified by the customs when imported/exported goods get to Italy or leave Italy).
The same happens for EU transactions (goods and services) which are already verified in another communication.

As for services to/from extra-EU clients (not services to/from blacklisted countries which are already verified) I have yet to discover if they are included or not, since they are not verified elsewhere in any other communication.

In your case, you are from Canada (extra-EU vendor and non-blacklisted country), so your client
thinks (or knows something I still don't know) that your transactions should be included in next year communication and asked your data (but they have to pay you anyway).

If I get any hint, I'll get back to you.

Bye!
Gianni


 

LuciaC
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:13
English to Italian
+ ...
Codice fiscale? Nov 9, 2013

I am just wondering whether they simply need to figure out your codice fiscale. My husband cannot get paid without it whenever he lectures in Italy. You can find out yours on the web.




[Edited at 2013-11-10 17:53 GMT]


 

bartonig
Italy
Local time: 22:13
Italian to English
Place and date of birth Nov 10, 2013

Within Italy providing your date and place of birth and your 'codice fiscale' is absolutely standard practice for any formal document such as receipts and contracts etc. Non-Italians not resident in Italy would be expected to do likewise, except for the 'codice fiscale', which is a tax code. In your case refusing to give the place and date would seem strange.

Nigel Barton


 

2G Trad  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 22:13
Member (2000)
English to Italian
+ ...
Codice fiscale Nov 10, 2013

LuciaC:
I am just wondering whether they simply need to figure out your codice fiscale. My husdand cannot get paid without it whenever he lectures in Italy. You can find out yours on the web.

The 'codice fiscale' is released only for Italian nationals or
people resident in Italy. So a Canadian resident in Canada will not be able to have it.
Anyway it seems they should not include your data in the communication of clients/providers for 2014.
By the way, why don't you ask them what your data is for?
Bye
Gianni


 

LuciaC
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:13
English to Italian
+ ...
Nope Nov 10, 2013

Any foreigner can request a CF. My husband is British born and bred, btw., and has never lived in Italy.



2G Trad wrote:

The 'codice fiscale' is released only for Italian nationals or people resident in Italy.



From what I can see here, though

http://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/wps/content/Nsilib/Nsi/Home/CosaDeviFare/Richiedere/Codice%20fiscale%20e%20tessera%20sanitaria/Richiesta%20TS_CF/SchedaI/Come%20si%20chiede%20il%20Codice%20Fiscale/

for non resident, non EU citizens the procedure is rather complex, so I doubt the codice fiscale is what they want.

[Edited at 2013-11-10 18:23 GMT]


 

2G Trad  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 22:13
Member (2000)
English to Italian
+ ...
Providing personal data to be paid Nov 10, 2013

bartonig:
Within Italy providing your date and place of birth and your 'codice fiscale' is absolutely standard practice for any formal document such as receipts and contracts etc. Non-Italians not resident in Italy would be expected to do likewise, except for the 'codice fiscale', which is a tax code. In your case refusing to give the place and date would seem strange.


I see no problem in giving a client my personal data.

That being said, if the client keeps asking a foreigner non resident vendor to provide personal data as it was legally required to be paid, this can be strange.
Especially if they don't need this data at all.

Bye
Gianni


 

John Fossey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 16:13
Member (2008)
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
Waiting for their response Nov 10, 2013

So far I told the client that I don't think they need this information for a non-resident foreign vendor providing services from outside the country and I heven't yet heard back from them, so presumably they're checking it out. The strange thing is that they are they only one of my Italian clients that has asked for this, so my suspicion is that they're misinformed. We'll see.

 

Alina - Maria Chiteala  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 23:13
Member (2011)
English to Romanian
+ ...
So far... Nov 11, 2013

No company from Italy asked these data in order to be paid. Just usual invoice with my company data.

 
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