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What is 'grid for fuzzy matches'?
Thread poster: Akiko A

Akiko A
Canada
Local time: 07:23
Member (2013)
English to Japanese
Jan 4, 2014

I hope here is the right place to ask. I'm recently contacted by an agency and told their rate per word with unfamiliar chart below. What does it mean exactly? Thank you in advance!

-------------------------------------------

This is the grid we apply to fuzzy matches:

XTR 0/10
Rep 0/10
100% 0/10
95-99% 33
85-94% 50
75-84% 50
50-74% 100
No Match 100


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Renée van Bijsterveld  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 16:23
Member (2007)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Percentage of base rate for (fuzzy) matches Jan 4, 2014

It means:
XTR 0/10 --> XTR paid @ 10% of base rate
Rep 0/10
100% 0/10
95-99% 33 --> @ 33% of base rate
85-94% 50 --> @ 50% of base rate
75-84% 50 etc.
50-74% 100
No Match 100

Automatic translated words (in segments), repetitions and 100% matches are paid @ 10% of base rate, 95-99% matches @ 33% etc.

So: if your base rate is 0.10/word, than a full (100%) match would be paid @ 0.01/word

This is for translation using CAT tools, such as Trados, Wordfast....


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Akiko A
Canada
Local time: 07:23
Member (2013)
English to Japanese
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Renée! Jan 4, 2014

Thank you for your clarification! Now I got it.

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Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:23
Partial member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
I don't charge for chopped-up words Jan 4, 2014

Renée van Bijsterveld wrote:

It means:
XTR 0/10 --> XTR paid @ 10% of base rate
Rep 0/10
100% 0/10
95-99% 33 --> @ 33% of base rate
85-94% 50 --> @ 50% of base rate
75-84% 50 etc.
50-74% 100
No Match 100

Automatic translated words (in segments), repetitions and 100% matches are paid @ 10% of base rate, 95-99% matches @ 33% etc.

So: if your base rate is 0.10/word, than a full (100%) match would be paid @ 0.01/word

This is for translation using CAT tools, such as Trados, Wordfast....


Just to clarify:

When you write:
This is for translation using CAT tools, such as Trados, Wordfast....

I don't accept such schemes based on "chopped-up word analyses." I suggest a price to my clients after I review the document.

I want to emphasize that such pricing schemes are something certain agencies decide to use and demand.

But - NO translator is obligated to accept such schemes.
A professional translator knows what his/her work is worth and will charge accordingly.
You might decide to give certain discounts if you feel but I don't give discounts directly based on fuzzy word matches. It's utter nonsense.
A translator doesn't deal with a text that has been reduced by the analysis of a CAT tool/agency to chopped-up words and the frequency of their appearance in the overall text. I don't base my work on that.

B

[Edited at 2014-01-05 00:01 GMT]

add on:

chopped-up sentences and phrases or "individual words" would be more to the point but you know what I mean.

[Edited at 2014-01-05 00:03 GMT]


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Akiko A
Canada
Local time: 07:23
Member (2013)
English to Japanese
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Bernhard! Jan 4, 2014

Thank you for sharing your opinion. This is the first time that I see such a grid and I don’t even know if it’s kind of standard to some extent. Your opinion certainly helps me to reconsider to work with them.

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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 16:23
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Are you sure? Jan 4, 2014

Renée van Bijsterveld wrote:
It means:
XTR 0/10 --> XTR paid @ 10% of base rate


Are you sure? I would have interpreted 0/10 to mean "zero tenths", not "one tenth". An alternative interpretation that would also make sense to me is "zero or ten" (i.e. depending on the project).


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Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
Right! Jan 4, 2014

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:

I want to emphasize that such pricing schemes are something certain agencies decide to use and demand.

But - NO translator is obligated to accept such schemes.
A professional translator knows what his/her work is worth and will charge accordingly.
You might decide to give certain discounts if you feel but I don't give discounts directly based on fuzzy word matches. It's utter nonsense.
A translator doesn't deal with a text that has been reduced by the analysis of a CAT tool/agency to chopped-up words and the frequency of their appearance in the overall text. I don't base my work on that.


B


First, you pay a CAT out of your pocket, then you learn it, and you should earn less after all? That's really nonsense!

It's time to stop to consider that giving discounts is "translation standard".

I have used a CAT since about ten years for my own purposes and give discounts only at my discretion, never agreed beforehand. If there are many long repetitions, I may give a discount, that's all.

Would everyone give a discount because he/she has just purchased a much faster PC?

N.B.: I use only my own TMs.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 16:23
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Okay, this thread is now a free for all Jan 4, 2014

Christel Zipfel wrote:
First, you pay a CAT out of your pocket...


No you don't. Your business pays it out of its pocket. If your business didn't pay this money to the CAT tool vendor, it would have paid it to the tax man. Who gets the money is up to you.

...then you learn it, and you should earn less after all?


If you earn less after you've learnt it, then it may be that you didn't learn it properly.

It's time to stop to consider that giving discounts is "translation standard".


Charging less for something that takes less time isn't a "discount". In fact, charging the same for something that takes less time should really be called a "surcharge", don't you agree?


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Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:23
Partial member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
No super tools Jan 5, 2014

Samuel Murray wrote:]

Charging less for something that takes less time isn't a "discount". In fact, charging the same for something that takes less time should really be called a "surcharge", don't you agree?


First of all, the price scheme mentioned above says nothing about the actual document, the phrasing of the text and its complexity, different meanings of words etc. as well as formatting issues. I know for a fact that payment schemes applied by agencies because of/for CAT tool usage can "reduce" a text of say 12,000 total words to 2000-3000 words paid at 100% of your rate and the rest of the words fall by the wayside (= become very fuzzy). You will work on a 12,000-word document and get paid as if you were working on just half that number of words. But you are really not. A CAT-tool is not a super tool that inserts all the right words at the right places in the text and does it for any and all instances. No, most often, you have to weigh the option that the CAT tool suggests and think about what to do with it. You have to make changes to the CAT tool suggestions or you have to use other words and phrases. That can mean major rearrangements of words and phrases which amounts to more time than what would have been involved by you simply translating it yourself. In my experience, the schemes applied by agencies most often indeed end up being big discounts for the agencies although there was never a reason for such discount when you factor in the actual work. And you don't know what they actually charge their client for your 12,000 word work (example), and it's quite possible that all you feel afterwards is that you've been had/cheated (IMO).

You cannot just simply accept a scheme without seeing the document and without doing a thorough review. You need to look at the whole document, the work it really involves, any serious repetitions (if any), and requirements, and then go from there.

I'd be very careful. Don't just take a job because the agency makes it seem as if CAT tool fuzzy word schemes are common practice and make sense just because they are able to present you with a CAT tool analysis of words.

If something really involves less work, then you should decide what you charge for it (that's okay), not just follow a scheme applied/demanded by the agency. (IMO , and I am speaking in general terms).

My 2 cents.

... and yes ...
what is this supposed to mean:

XTR 0/10
Rep 0/10
100% 0/10

Beware of "0"s.

B

[Edited at 2014-01-05 01:29 GMT]


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Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:23
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Out of whose pocket? Jan 5, 2014

Samuel Murray wrote:
If your business didn't pay this money to the CAT tool vendor, it would have paid it to the tax man. Who gets the money is up to you.


Unless the national tax system you're referring to differs substantially from the one I know, this is wrong. It is a common misunderstanding about what "tax deduction" means, though.

The money isn't deducted from the tax due (which would indeed mean that you simply decide whether it goes to the tax office or the vendor of the software), but from the taxable income. If you decide not to buy a CAT tool (and have done all other necessary investments), this money would be available as personal income (on which you'd have to pay income tax, though - that's where you save).

In other words: You do pay it out of your pocket.


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José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 11:23
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Correct! It is your choice. Jan 5, 2014

Akiko A wrote:

This is the first time that I see such a grid and I don’t even know if it’s kind of standard to some extent. Your opinion certainly helps me to reconsider to work with them.


In most trades, the seller sets the price & terms. In translation, an overwhelming number of amateurs scattered worldwide have widespread the notion that buyers are entitled to impose them.

To enlighten you that there are many options available, I'll give you a few examples.

1. Most of my best clients couldn't care less if I use a CAT tool, as long as I leave no trace of its usage on my deliverables. I paid for my WordFast license, invested time in learning to use it, it's my standard m.o.

2. Another one of my best clients provides me with their portable license of MemoQ to use while I am working on their projects. This CAT tool offers free online training, however this client provides me with full tech support and guidance on it. Their projects are usually giant, involving 6-10 other translators simultaneously working on the same material, on the cloud. I am expected to use all fuzzy matches/repeated segments any of us has already translated, for consistency. In these projects, they pay 30% less than my standard rate, however it includes all words at this rate, even if I just have to click through entire segments. Also, they pay on the next day as soon as they receive my invoice.

3. Two other among my best clients provide me with a free 'freelancer' version of Passolo, and the material in compatible files. They provide guidance on its use, whenever needed. They pay normal rates on all words, except repeated segments, which are provided for free (this is MY policy for large jobs with WordFast as well).

Some prospects demand that I must have Trados (which I don't!). On top of that, they impose a grid like the one you mentioned, and strive to lower the basic per word rate applied to it. This is just one of the numerous reasons why I chose not to buy Trados. Of course, I can't and don't serve these clients. However I hear that there are hundreds of translators who live happily within this scenario.

So the choice is all yours!


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 16:23
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Efreitag Jan 5, 2014

efreitag wrote:
The money isn't deducted from the tax due ... but from the taxable income.


True. So not buying a CAT tool would mean that you pay more tax but you also have a higher personal income.


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Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:23
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
@Samuel Jan 5, 2014

Samuel Murray wrote:

efreitag wrote:
The money isn't deducted from the tax due ... but from the taxable income.


True. So not buying a CAT tool would mean that you pay more tax but you also have a higher personal income.


Indeed, exactly my point. That's why Christel has been perfectly right: you pay it out of your pocket.


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Kaiya J. Diannen  Identity Verified
Australia
Member (2008)
German to English
OT: The tax issue Jan 6, 2014

efreitag wrote:
Samuel Murray wrote:
efreitag wrote:
The money isn't deducted from the tax due ... but from the taxable income.

True. So not buying a CAT tool would mean that you pay more tax but you also have a higher personal income.

Indeed, exactly my point. That's why Christel has been perfectly right: you pay it out of your pocket.


Not only do you pay for it out of your pocket, another thing to keep in mind is that the amount you "save" in taxes doesn't even come close to the amount you spend out of your pocket (deduction amount).

Just to be clear, if you spend $1000, you may reduce the "tax bracket" (US terminology) you're in, which in turn may reduce your overall tax liability by, let's say for the sake of argument, about $300. So you've spent $1000, and "saved" $300.

If, by the same token, you did not spend that $1000, you would have $1000 more in your "pocket" at the end of the year, and you may (instead) be in the next highest tax bracket, meaning you will owe the $300. So by not spending the $1000, you have "saved" $700.

Just something to keep in mind when considering tax benefits from deductions!

- - -
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

Per the 2012 US Income Tax Table available at the above link:
A single person earning $36,000 net ($5,036 tax liability) saves $217 by spending $1000 to reduce the tax bracket down to $35,000 ($4,819 tax liability)
A single person earning $40,000 net ($6,036 tax liability) saves $1217 by spending $5000 to reduce the tax bracket down to $35,000 ($4,819 tax liability)

[Edited at 2014-01-06 09:59 GMT]


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Kaiya J. Diannen  Identity Verified
Australia
Member (2008)
German to English
THIS (is what I have always said) Jan 6, 2014

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:

A CAT-tool is not a super tool that inserts all the right words at the right places in the text and does it for any and all instances. No, most often, you have to weigh the option that the CAT tool suggests and think about what to do with it. You have to make changes to the CAT tool suggestions or you have to use other words and phrases. That can mean major rearrangements of words and phrases which amounts to more time than what would have been involved by you simply translating it yourself.
...
You cannot just simply accept a scheme without seeing the document and without doing a thorough review. You need to look at the whole document, the work it really involves, any serious repetitions (if any), and requirements, and then go from there.
...
If something really involves less work, then you should decide what you charge for it (that's okay), not just follow a scheme applied/demanded by the agency

The only thing I would change would be "weigh the option" to "weigh the options":
Often a CAT tool will spit out more than one so-called fuzzy match per segment, which means the process actually begins with the translator needing to first review all or most of the options suggested to see which if any can be "stripped for parts" with the least amount of time and effort - which actually adds time and effort!


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