Repetitions rate for case-sensitive languages
Thread poster: Andrei Yefimov

Andrei Yefimov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 00:38
English to Russian
+ ...
Feb 5, 2014

The other day I took on a project with many reps paid at the rate of 10% of my full rate. Fine with me as long as the segments get filled in automatically once the first word has been translated.

Halfway through the project it transpired that some words needed different grammar forms, that is I had to put nouns (both singular and plural) in a corresponding case (genetive, accusative etc.). That means I need to check string ID, find out what ending applies, then manually change it, then do a final check.

I brought this to the attetion of my client, insisting that a revision rate should apply because this is a different task, actually. They didn't agree and said that I was checking my own translation, and that's what they pay me 10% of my full rate.

Now we seem to be at odds as to how we should treat those reps. They say it's an industry standard and all other translators have no complaints.

My key question is whether it's warranted to apply my revision rate (I know it is I just want to have some proof that I can show to my client).

I'd appreciate if we could focus on the issue itself without discussing who the client are and what their reasoning is. Please also refrain from making defomatory statements, flaming etc.

Thank you!

[Edited at 2014-02-05 13:17 GMT]


 

Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:38
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
What is a "rep"? Feb 5, 2014

Dear Andrei,

It's not entirely clear to me what your question really is: How to treat repetitions generally, or how to behave in your concrete situation with your client. I'll assume the latter.

It depends on what you have agreed with your customer what a "rep" is. Usually, you can read this as "any word in a segment that the CAT tool agreed upon counts as a repetition". I don't know all the circumstances, but it looks like you didn't check the task thoroughly enough beforehand and have agreed to do it for a certain price, and now you're trying to charge more, which would not count as professional conduct.

So, without knowing all the details, my guess is that your client absolutely is entitled to have the job done for the agreed price. Put it down as a lesson for the next time.

Kind regards,
Erik


 

Joakim Braun  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 23:38
German to Swedish
+ ...
My definition Feb 5, 2014

A repetition is a source text that occurs multiple times and is translated in exactly the same way.
You shouldn't even have to look at it.

(Whether good translations are produced in this way is another matter...)


 

Andrei Yefimov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 00:38
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Wrong Feb 5, 2014

efreitag wrote:

Dear Andrei,

It's not entirely clear to me what your question really is: How to treat repetitions generally, or how to behave in your concrete situation with your client. I'll assume the latter.

It depends on what you have agreed with your customer what a "rep" is. Usually, you can read this as "any word in a segment that the CAT tool agreed upon counts as a repetition". I don't know all the circumstances, but it looks like you didn't check the task thoroughly enough beforehand and have agreed to do it for a certain price, and now you're trying to charge more, which would not count as professional conduct.

So, without knowing all the details, my guess is that your client absolutely is entitled to have the job done for the agreed price. Put it down as a lesson for the next time.

Kind regards,
Erik


Sorry Erik, you got it all wrong.

I want to know if I could apply my revision rate if the translating repetitions requires serious effort. I believe we all know what reps are, do we? So I don't see know you can say something about me being unprofessional if it's entirely clear that editing reps can't be paid at the 10% of the full rate.

For what it's worth, there were two types of reps in the text I was working on. The first is TRUE reps that get propagated once the first word is translated. No further work required on them except for the quick check to make sure there are no typos etc. (that's what is paid at the 10% rate and that's what the deal was). The other so-called "reps" required changing endings of those words to produce gramatically correct forms. I don't see how you can't see the difference between the two.

[Edited at 2014-02-05 14:06 GMT]


 

Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:38
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
More information needed Feb 5, 2014

Andrei Yefimov wrote:

I want to know if I could apply my revision rate if the translating repetitions requires serious effort.


Of course, you're entirely free to offer any rate for any kind of task to your customers. If your revision rate isn't enough to cover the amount of work you need to edit the segments you're talking about, you should charge a higher rate. But you can't do that after agreeing to a lower one.

Andrei Yefimov wrote:
So I don't see know you can say something about me being unprofessional if it's entirely clear that editing reps can't be paid at the 10% of the full rate.


Did you make this entirely clear to your customer beforehand as well? In other words: What does the purchase order say? If you offered to edit the repetitions for 10% of the full rate, then I'm afraid you're bound to adhere to that. Anything else would be unprofessional (although you can ask your customer he's willing to pay your more as a sign of goodwill).

Andrei Yefimov wrote:
For what it's worth, there were two types of reps in the text I was working on. The first is TRUE reps that get propagated once the first word is translated. No further work required on them except for the quick check to make sure there are no typos etc. (that's what is paid at the 10% rate and that's what the deal was). The other so-called "reps" required changing endings of those words to produce gramatically correct forms. I don't see how you can't see the difference between the two.


Don't worry, this is competely clear to me. A repetition is just that (just to make sure we really have the same definition): A segment that occurs multiple times in exactly the same way in a document. This doesn't necessarily mean that the translation will be absolutely identical every time. That's what you get paid 10% (in this case) of your normal rate for: To check this and make any necessary alterations.

So, it all boils down to the question "What does your PO say?", and to the point that you need to check this BEFOREHAND. It's too late now.



[Bearbeitet am 2014-02-05 14:58 GMT]


 

Svetlana Podkolzina  Identity Verified
Portugal
Member (2007)
English to Russian
+ ...
Fuzzies Feb 5, 2014

In this case I would contact the client and ask to amend the PO to include those reps as fuzzies (paid at 60-70%) at least.

 

Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:38
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Different definitions Feb 5, 2014

Joakim Braun wrote:

A repetition is a source text that occurs multiple times and is translated in exactly the same way.
You shouldn't even have to look at it.


This shows that we don't all have the same definition of a repetition. In my book, it's a segment that appears multiple times in the source text, in the exact same way. This doesn't necessarily mean that the target segments will all be identical as well. That's why I expect to be paid for repetitions.


 

felicij  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:38
German to Slovenian
+ ...
Some languages have different endings or even words... Feb 5, 2014

...for M, F and N.
E.g. The machine is off. Turn it on. (Slovenian: Stroj je ugasnjen. Vklopi ga.)
The device is off. Turn it on. (Slovenian: Naprava je ugasnjena. Vklopi jo.)

Take a look at the words in the second senteces. In English they are both IT and in my language there is once GA and once JO but CAT analysis treats them as 100% match.
So in my language you always have to look at all 100% matches to be certain and that's why my standard discount rate for reps is 30% of the price.
I completely understand you Andrei but I don't think you will be able to persuade your client because they probably don't (or don't want to) understand the difference.
But you can always try...


 

Andrei Yefimov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 00:38
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
general question Feb 6, 2014

efreitag wrote:

So, it all boils down to the question "What does your PO say?", and to the point that you need to check this BEFOREHAND. It's too late now.



[Bearbeitet am 2014-02-05 14:58 GMT]


Erik, my question was: would you agree to handle reps at 10% of your rate if you knew you need to modify them expensively?

For what it's worth, I was not aware of this when taking the job.


 

Andrei Yefimov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 00:38
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Feb 6, 2014

Many thanks Joakim, Svetlana and felicij. My thoughts exactly!

 

Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:38
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
No, but ... Feb 6, 2014

Andrei Yefimov wrote:

efreitag wrote:

So, it all boils down to the question "What does your PO say?", and to the point that you need to check this BEFOREHAND. It's too late now.



[Bearbeitet am 2014-02-05 14:58 GMT]


Erik, my question was: would you agree to handle reps at 10% of your rate if you knew you need to modify them expensively?


I see, now your question becomes clearer at last. My answer would be that no, I wouldn't. Except if I had already submitted a quote to that effect.

Andrei Yefimov wrote:
For what it's worth, I was not aware of this when taking the job.


Why not?


 


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