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Possible fraud
Thread poster: Paul Galenko

Paul Galenko
Local time: 10:16
Member
English to Russian
+ ...
Jan 19, 2015

I’ve made rather big EN>DE project on AutoCad for Mr. C. McN (England) in middle of November. In the end of December he sent me email that my part of translation (along with other translations parts made by other translators) had been checked and turned out to be good enough and that they were going to submit the whole project to their client who was supposed to pay two weeks later (i.e. in the middle of January, 2015). Recently I sent him some payment requests. There was no any feedback. I want to ask: did anyone take part in this project or worked for this person? If this is a fraud, what can be done now?

[Редактировалось 2015-01-19 13:16 GMT]


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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:16
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Post will be removed Jan 19, 2015

Paul Galenko wrote:

I’ve made rather big EN>DE project on AutoCad for Mr. C McN (England) in middle of November. In the end of December he sent me email that my part of translation (along with other translations parts made by other translators) had been checked and turned out to be good enough and that they were going to submit the whole project to their client who was supposed to pay two weeks later (i.e. in the middle of January, 2015). Recently I sent him some payment requests. There was no any feedback. I want to ask: did anyone take part in this project or worked for this person? If this is a fraud, what can be done now?


Paul- this post will be removed unless you eliminate the name of Mr C McN.

Does this gentleman have a BLueBoard record?

[Edited at 2015-01-19 13:42 GMT]


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Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Unedited since 3 days

Yolanda Broad  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:16
Member (2000)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
Please create a Blue Board record Jan 19, 2015

When no Blue Board exists, you can create one. Once it has been approved, you can make an entry there yourself. (Note that paid membership on ProZ is not required to either create a Blue Board record or make an entry).

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Paul Galenko
Local time: 10:16
Member
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
How can it help? Jan 19, 2015

Yolanda Broad wrote:

When no Blue Board exists, you can create one. Once it has been approved, you can make an entry there yourself. (Note that paid membership on ProZ is not required to either create a Blue Board record or make an entry).


This person seems to have no personal website.


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Yolanda Broad  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:16
Member (2000)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
A Blue Board record allows other translators to check outsourcer Jan 19, 2015

Ways having a Blue Board record can help:

--If the outsourcer contacts anyone else, the place other translators will check is the Blue Board.

--When an entry is made to the Blue Board, the outsourcer is notified. This often stimulates outsourcers to pay their overdue bills.



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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:16
Member (2008)
Italian to English
True but... Jan 19, 2015

Yolanda Broad wrote:

Ways having a Blue Board record can help:

--If the outsourcer contacts anyone else, the place other translators will check is the Blue Board.

--When an entry is made to the Blue Board, the outsourcer is notified. This often stimulates outsourcers to pay their overdue bills.




... unfortunately, as has happened to me on a couple of occasions, it sometimes leads to the outsourcer offering to pay in exchange for changing a negative BB rating to a positive one. This negates the whole point of the BB since it creates the impression that the outsourcer is good to work for and pays on time.

THis is a great shame because used correctly, I find the BB a extremely effective tool. Just a few days ago it helped me to get paid !

[Edited at 2015-01-19 16:35 GMT]


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José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 06:16
English to Portuguese
+ ...
I suggested automating it Jan 19, 2015

Tom in London wrote:

Yolanda Broad wrote:

Ways having a Blue Board record can help:

--If the outsourcer contacts anyone else, the place other translators will check is the Blue Board.

--When an entry is made to the Blue Board, the outsourcer is notified. This often stimulates outsourcers to pay their overdue bills.




... unfortunately, as has happened to me on a couple of occasions, it sometimes leads to the outsourcer offering to pay in exchange for changing a negative BB rating to a positive one. This negates the whole point of the BB since it creates the impression that the outsourcer is good to work for and pays on time.

THis is a great shame because used correctly, I find the BB a extremely effective tool. Just a few days ago it helped me to get paid !


I think I once suggested that Proz should add a "blackmail" button to anyone's bad BB record.

It would work like this:

Scene 1: Translator doesn't get paid, puts a WWA = 1 and a "These scammers don't pay!" comment.

Scene 2: Outsourcer tells translator to change that to a 5 at once, for immediate payment. Threatens to never pay, unless that low WWA is removed within the next couple of hours.

Scene 3: Translator clicks on that magic "blackmail" button. The BB entry immediately changes to a WWA =5 and NO comment. Scammer pays.

Scene 4: Two business days after the "blackmail" button was clicked, the corresponding BB entry automatically reverts to what it was in Scene 1 above.

If the outsourcer hasn't paid by then, they deserve the low score.

I've had one scammer who paid me just to have evidence that they did to send me, so I'd change my WWA, and then cancelled that payment immediately afterwards, saying it had been a mistake. They didn't count on me not being at all shy to make international phone calls via Skype (to the payment system customer service).


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Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule

Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
Hong Kong
Local time: 16:16
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Have you tried? Jan 20, 2015

Website isn't a required field. If you don't know the address, just write "Not known".

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Paul Galenko
Local time: 10:16
Member
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
What sense? Jan 20, 2015

Lincoln Hui wrote:

Website isn't a required field. If you don't know the address, just write "Not known".


What sense to leave then WWA to "not known person"?

[Редактировалось 2015-01-20 12:16 GMT]


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xxxAdrian MM.
Local time: 09:16
French to English
+ ...
What law applies to Mr. English, McIrish or Scotsman Jan 20, 2015

Здравствуйте!

If English (& Welsh) law applies to this loaded query, there is no excuse for your agent refusing to pay.

A UK court will not accept the argument of payment from the end-user before payment over to the translator or interpreter, questionably even if made a condition of the translator's contract.

Most if not all judges will tell the agent or agency to go away and *raise a bridging loan* from a bank or building society to meet any 'reasonable' bill.

If a large amount is involved, then consult a UK lawyer/High Street Solicitor or a debt recovery agency.

[Edited at 2015-01-20 12:59 GMT]


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Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 09:16
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
Rule 8: Attempting to influence another's use of the Blue Board is prohibited Jan 20, 2015

Tom in London wrote:

... unfortunately, as has happened to me on a couple of occasions, it sometimes leads to the outsourcer offering to pay in exchange for changing a negative BB rating to a positive one. This negates the whole point of the BB since it creates the impression that the outsourcer is good to work for and pays on time.

THis is a great shame because used correctly, I find the BB a extremely effective tool. Just a few days ago it helped me to get paid !

[Edited at 2015-01-19 16:35 GMT]


http://www.proz.com/siterules/blue_board_bb_blueboard/8#8

If an outsourcer tries to make payment conditional on changing your Blue Board rating, then forward the mail to Proz.com. Or threaten to, if you prefer, but do it if necessary.

If the outsourcer has replied, you can't change the entry anyway, so they have to wait until you are allowed to make a new entry 12 months after the first one.

The BB is potentially skewed in favour of outsourcers anyway - people will happily give a positive rating, but are less comfortable about giving negative ones. Apart from that, it seems churlish to give less than 5, when that should really be reserved for the very best clients, and 3 or 4 should be fine for 'average' ones. But that is not how it works - most people are cautious about working for an outsourcer with an average of 4, often including myself.

So if you get as far as warning others on the BB, don't change it without good reason - and certainly not because of threats from the client!


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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:16
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Getting paid is the main concern Jan 20, 2015

Yes Christine - in theory that's right but in practice, the translator simply wants to be paid and understandably, would be likely to do whatever seems necessary.

My own hope (given that the BlueBoard is such a useful and generally effective tool) that individual users would exercise their own discretion in using it, bearing in mind that the comments they leave on the BB, and the star ratings they give, will be used by future Prozians to determine whether or not they should work with a particular agency.

For that reason it is vital that the information given should not be misleading. I'm sure everyone can understand that. Just the other day I left a negative rating about one particular outsourcer, because I hope to help others in future by flashing a warning light about the problems I encountered. For the same reason I also give positive entries when agencies behave well.

It's up to us as the users to keep the BB as sharp, shiny, and reliable as any of our other working tools !

[Edited at 2015-01-20 14:42 GMT]


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Paul Galenko
Local time: 10:16
Member
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I can't understand Jan 20, 2015

Why are you talking about agencies and not about individual persons who make job orders on behalf of theirselves?

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