| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | My agency won't pay me because the client declined my work Thread poster: Gali Shapira
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:23
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Quality is absolute | Jun 5, 2015 |
Quality must NEVER be sacrificed for the sake of something else. I would be prepared to be burned at the stake in defence of that proposition.
| | | | | My agency won't pay me...Non-payment by agency--Hebrew | Jun 5, 2015 |
I have encountered almost precisely the same problem on an Italian>English translation project for which I also had a purchase order and email confirmation to go-ahead. I was halfway through the project when the client, who had seen and okayed two or three pieces of the work, notified me to stop the translating because the client and their client didn't like the work. Further, the agency informed me that they had requested 2 independent reviews of the work I had done so far by two "experts' who ... See more I have encountered almost precisely the same problem on an Italian>English translation project for which I also had a purchase order and email confirmation to go-ahead. I was halfway through the project when the client, who had seen and okayed two or three pieces of the work, notified me to stop the translating because the client and their client didn't like the work. Further, the agency informed me that they had requested 2 independent reviews of the work I had done so far by two "experts' who agreed with their assessment and that they were going to pay me NOTHING for the 50% of the work I had completed.
To make a very long story (and getting longer) short, I requested the documentation from the agency's so-called experts' and harshly criticized them for not keeping my name private from their 'reviewers', which borders on defamation. I then compared the documents (original Italian, my translation, and their experts' reviews); I pointed out to the client in my line-by-line-review and comparison of the work that the objections were ridiculous and unfounded and the client's expectations unrealistic**, and I refused their counter-offer of about 100 euro in all for a project that was already contracted and accepted and 50% complete, and supposed to pay 1200 euro upon completion.
They stood their ground, I stood mine, firmly and politely and irresolutely. At the moment my attorney is formulating a strong letter which will go out to them any day now initiating legal action. I will keep you informed, please do likewise with your problem. Yes, we must remain polite, objective and immovable. This is just another case of the powerful company (the agent) raking over the smaller independent (the free-lancer). Don't give in or give up.
**I say that the client's expectations were unrealistic because no translation is ever letter-perfect on a first draft. Queries are normal; so are typos now and then (in original texts as well). Style is always a big factor; readability and flow always leave choices. Translation is not a science or Google would already be doing all the work. Hang in there. ▲ Collapse
| | | | John Dawson 
United States
Local time: 21:23
Spanish to English
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| Painful lesson | Jun 5, 2015 |
I agree that your client should return your translation to you with clear indication of why it was unacceptable. That could be helpful for you in the future. But I think there is something important to be learned from the experience. I imagine most of us who have been translators for some time have accepted a project - against our better judgement - and found ourselves in over our heads. It's important to know one's own limitations and work within them. As a technical translator, I've learned th... See more I agree that your client should return your translation to you with clear indication of why it was unacceptable. That could be helpful for you in the future. But I think there is something important to be learned from the experience. I imagine most of us who have been translators for some time have accepted a project - against our better judgement - and found ourselves in over our heads. It's important to know one's own limitations and work within them. As a technical translator, I've learned that when a client offers me a document involving chemistry or biochem, I say thank you, but no thank you. Because I am unfamiliar with the concepts involved in those technologies, I would simply be translating words. That produces a document that's largely useless to the person paying for it. If, because of your unfamiliarity with the technology, the document you delivered was of no use to your client's client, it was an exercise in frustration for everyone involved - you, your client and your client's client. I would simply accept whatever compensation they offer and vow to remember this as a painful but useful lesson. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | My agency won't pay me... | Jun 5, 2015 |
Sheila, I agree 100%.
quote]Sheila Wilson wrote:
They can't just say that and disappear. You need to know exactly what caused the work to be rejected. And only if you are given proof that the work was really unfit for the purpose can there be grounds for non-payment. Even if there were some errors of terminology or language (gra.mmar, spelling etc), you should have been given the chance to correct them, or given the chance to offer a discount. This would not have been g... See more Sheila, I agree 100%.
quote]Sheila Wilson wrote:
They can't just say that and disappear. You need to know exactly what caused the work to be rejected. And only if you are given proof that the work was really unfit for the purpose can there be grounds for non-payment. Even if there were some errors of terminology or language (gra.mmar, spelling etc), you should have been given the chance to correct them, or given the chance to offer a discount. This would not have been grounds for a 100% rejection.
Then there is the question of why an allegedly awful translation was delivered to the end client. Did the agency not check your work, or have it checked by a proofreader? If not, why not? If they did, then where is their share of the responsibility and loss for not having spotted anything wrong?
And if they are just taking the end client's word for it, does that person have sufficient knowledge of the two languages on which to base the claim? In other words, can anyone justify this action? Normally they don't know the languages themselves.
My advice is to stay polite, clearly ready to take responsibility for your work and any errors, but stand firm on the principle that 'acceptable' work must be paid for.
Good luck! [/quote]
Further, I do not agree with Tom's high-minded view of translations--there are many differences and many 'right' or 'wrong' (beyond complete misunderstanding of meaning). As to submitting a perfect translation, there ain't no such animal no matter what the subject matter is, from Dante on down to mass market advertising. Yay for perseverance; stand by your work. ▲ Collapse
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Gali Shapira
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:23
English to Hebrew
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TOPIC STARTER | Non paying agency | Jun 5, 2015 |
ltaruschio Thank you. 100% rejection of the work is completely wrong specially if they don't even bother to send me the feedback. Don't you think it is strange? I have asked for it a good few hours ago. It is as if they are spending time correcting it before they send it to me or something. I never had such an experience before. Something does not add up...
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Tom in London wrote:
Quality must NEVER be sacrificed for the sake of something else.
Surely the whole point of translation is to create a product that is usable and that meets the customer's requirements. I have never understood this concept that "the translator should be paid no matter what." If I call the plumber to fix a burst pipe and he doesn't, why should I pay him? He hasn't solved the problem I asked him to.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:23
Member (2008)
Italian to English
ltaruschio wrote:
As to submitting a perfect translation, there ain't no such animal no matter what the subject matter is, from Dante on down to mass market advertising.
I do it all the time. Perhaps "perfect" isn't the right word, but you know what I mean. Oh wait - maybe you don't.
| | | | Gali Shapira
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:23
English to Hebrew
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Non paying agency | Jun 5, 2015 |
However, Fiona if the plumber asks the client to show them what is wrong would you now expect them to show it immediately?
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My plumber reference was an example. As a direct customer, I would see the work had not been done and ask him to rectify the situation, or I would grab the Yellow Pages and find someone able to fix my pipe.
In your case, you are going through the agency, they are your point of contact, therefore it is up to them to prove your work was not up to standard. Of course they need to do this. The way I see things, however, it may be a no-win situation. You yourself admit the text was chall... See more My plumber reference was an example. As a direct customer, I would see the work had not been done and ask him to rectify the situation, or I would grab the Yellow Pages and find someone able to fix my pipe.
In your case, you are going through the agency, they are your point of contact, therefore it is up to them to prove your work was not up to standard. Of course they need to do this. The way I see things, however, it may be a no-win situation. You yourself admit the text was challenging and outside your scope of expertise; the agency acted unprofessionally by offering a low rate and by anticipating the delivery date. This suggests to me that they were either dishonest with you from the start, or came under pressure from the client to deliver the text earlier than previously agreed, neither of which bode well in terms of you being paid.
My advice would be to keep at them, but to look objectively at the situation and to be realistic.
I wish you the best of luck and hope the situation works out for you. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Unless you made a right mess of it, they should pay you | Jun 5, 2015 |
If you've told them you aren't a specialist and their deadline puts you under immense time pressure, they cannot expect normal quality standards - they just have to take (and pay for) what they get.
It's the agency's problem entirely.
Next time perhaps the end-customer will be better organised so there is time to hire an expert.
I have to say I would never place myself in that position though!!
| | | | Gali Shapira
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:23
English to Hebrew
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Non paying agency | Jun 5, 2015 |
I think this is a fair summery Chris, Of course as I've said I don't even know if I've made a right mess of it as I haven't even seen the corrections. I think this perfect professional expectations from the freelancer and very little professionalism from agencies and big firms. As usual the ones with more money runs the show
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 03:23
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Room for negotiation | Jun 5, 2015 |
galishapira wrote:
...offered me a job at the weekend with a low rate and a tight deadline. I told them that the particular field is not my specialism (technology) but I could give it a go for a better rate and an extended deadline. A higher rate was agreed on and I began working on the document which I must admit was very technical and hard for me. Perhaps I should have given up but I persevered and believed was doing quite well.
I must admit there are some worrying words there: "give it a go", "doing quite well". It does sound as though you were partially at fault here. You clearly didn't deliver the good work that the agency was used to. Your error was in accepting a job you weren't qualified to do, and compounding the problem by doing it fast. For a regular client you may well agree to go outside your comfort zone, or to do a rush job, but you should NEVER agree to do both.
Now you have an agency that is contracted to pay out more than they had planned (since you negotiated a higher rate), yet receive nothing from their own client - if that really is what is happening here. I think in these circumstances, and only if they do eventually provide the evidence of fault on your part, you should be prepared to meet them part way, to share the blame for an unsatisfied end client. However, I certainly don't think you should meekly accept whatever you're being offered, as some suggest. Freelancers aren't (or shouldn't be) meek underlings; they are business partners. You should offer them a once-off reduction, IMO. Maybe 50%, though that's for you to decide.
Maybe the most important outcome will be learning the lesson that YOU are the best judge of what material you can translate, how long you need for the job, and how much payment is needed. Don't leave these decisions to clients and then suffer the consequences when it goes pear-shaped. Remember, nobody can force you to take on any job.
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564354352 (X)
Denmark
Local time: 04:23
Danish to English
+ ...
| This is what I would do | Jun 5, 2015 |
galishapira wrote:
What to do if your agency said the client declined your work and will not pay you?
1. Ask why the translation was rejected.
- Was it the entire text that was considered useless? Was it some specific terminology that had been used wrongly/misunderstood, or had choices been made that were completely correct, but just not the end client's preferred terminology or communication style? Did the translation not make sense (wrong register)? etc. etc. Sometimes, end clients will deem an entire translation 'rubbish' after reading just a few sentences.
2. Ask how best to resolve the problem so that the end client WILL accept the translation. I.e. do they want to send you a file indicating everything they find wrong in the translation, so that you can a) determine whether they are right, and b) remedy any genuine mistakes you may have made? Or can they put together a small glossary of any preferred technical terms, so that you can update the file?
3. Decide, once you know why the end client has rejected the text, whether you think that their complaint is enough to give the agency a discount.
Like Tom and Fiona, I don't think there's any excuse for submitting work if you KNOW that it is not up to a professional standard. "Word perfect", Tom, is an impossibility, as translation is not an exact science. There will always be possible variations, alternative wording, preferences etc. But I agree entirely, that we cannot claim 'not enough time' or 'inexperience' or 'low price' as an excuse to deliver substandard work. It will always be the translator's duty to assess any job and determine whether she can do the job to a professional standard within whatever framework she agrees with the client. If she knows even before starting a job that she cannot do the job within the given framework, she should decline it, however much pressure the client puts on her. Once she has accepted the job, she is under an obligation to complete it as agreed.
| | | | Gali Shapira
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:23
English to Hebrew
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Non paying agency | Jun 5, 2015 |
But what if what has been agreed is a Monday deadline and by Sunday morning the job was expected to be delivered?
| | | | | Thirded or fourthed or whatevered | Jun 5, 2015 |
Fiona Peterson wrote: Tom in London wrote:
Quality must NEVER be sacrificed for the sake of something else. Surely the whole point of translation is to create a product that is usable and that meets the customer's requirements. I have never understood this concept that "the translator should be paid no matter what." If I call the plumber to fix a burst pipe and he doesn't, why should I pay him? He hasn't solved the problem I asked him to.
Seems a split jury here so I'd just add my vote to the "no" side. On the basis of the story so far, and your description of how the job went, IF (big if) all parties concerned are acting in good faith, it does rather sound to me as though the agency could well be in the right.
It would, at some point, be preferable to receive a corrected version, of course. But the end client's priority is likely to be procuring what they originally wanted - a translation they can use. Mine would be if I were them. Perhaps you could simply ask for a copy of that, if and when they get it? They might after all be disinclined to spend time correcting something that is apparently so poor as to be worthless. There is little to be gained by them from the exercise.
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