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Would you make a negative Blueboard entry
Thread poster: Fahim Hoosen

Fahim Hoosen  Identity Verified
South Africa
Local time: 19:37
Member
Arabic to English
+ ...
Aug 11, 2015

Would you make a negative Blueboard entry about a company who fails to honour their payments on time?
My fear is the company may respond with an unjustified negative comment about me, which may tarnish my reputation in the future. This fear is causing me to just remain silent and keep a clean record.


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Susana E. Cano Méndez  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 18:37
Member
French to Spanish
+ ...
Yes, I would Aug 11, 2015

They can't make a negative comment about you. They only can say if they are willing to work again with you or remain silent. While we, translators, can rate them and make comments about everything (friendliness, payments etc.). Or so I believe.

I have been told that sometimes outsourcers are, let's say, more prone to pay if they are confronted to a negative rating.

In fact, I have discovered your post while looking for advice on whether make a negative Blue Board record on someone who is not paying me (invoice as of May 8th).

Good luck.


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Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
French to Danish
+ ...
Yes Aug 11, 2015

Yes, I would make a negative comment, and I have done so, but I strictly keep my comments to verifiable facts. If the outsourcer replies with libellous comments or otherwise tries to influence your BB entry, support will deal with it as long as you can supply copies of e-mails and other relevant documentation to them to justify your own comments.

I realise that it can be unpleasant, but if problems with outsourcers aren't reported, then the BB has no purpose, and you just transfer your problem of being afraid of posting a negative comment to someone else who may end up not being paid because you were afraid.


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Fahim Hoosen  Identity Verified
South Africa
Local time: 19:37
Member
Arabic to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I've seen responses from companies on the Blueboard Aug 11, 2015

Are you sure about that? I've noticed companies' responses on the Blueboard.
I have a similar issue with one outstanding invoice from May. The outstanding amount is now in excess of $1000 USD and I'm wondering whether a negative entry or the threat of one would put pressure on the company to pay. The likelihood of working with them again is obviously very low anyway.


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Tina Vonhof  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 10:37
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
It depends Aug 11, 2015

It depends first and foremost on what their payment terms are as per your contract or the PO or the emails you exchanged before accepting the job. Secondly, if the payment is really overdue, have you sent them one or more reminders? Thirdly, how often has this happened, is this their first 'offense' or has it happened several times despite reminders? In other words, I wouldn't immediately rush to the Blue Board if there is a chance that it's just a one-time oversight on their part.



[Edited at 2015-08-11 20:09 GMT]


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Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
French to Danish
+ ...
Be sure to understand the BB rules Aug 11, 2015

Fahim Hoosen wrote:

I'm wondering whether a negative entry or the threat of one would put pressure on the company to pay.


It is against the rules to use the BB as coercion. Do yourself the favour to understand the BB rules before you use the BB:

http://www.proz.com/siterules/blue_board_bb_blueboard/2

Particularly:

"9 The Blue Board may not be used to coerce. Using the Blue Board, or threatening to use the Blue Board, in such a way as to pressure an outsourcer or service provider into taking some action, is strictly prohibited."


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Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:37
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
I would, but... Aug 11, 2015

... with much, much care!

It irritates me to see comments such as: 'I delivered 1 or 2 weeks ago, and still haven't been paid (followed by a fat 1)'.

I see more comments of which I think they are not (totally) to the point, therefore, please think twice before you enter a complaint. If it is cristal clear that the client is 'BS-ing' you (forgive me my French), don't hesitate, but please come with a well founded story in stead of some simple aggrevations, we are linguists = we have the power of language.



[Edited at 2015-08-11 20:14 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-08-11 20:15 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-08-11 20:16 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-08-11 20:20 GMT]


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Fahim Hoosen  Identity Verified
South Africa
Local time: 19:37
Member
Arabic to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for pointing this out Aug 11, 2015

Thomas T. Frost wrote:

Fahim Hoosen wrote:

I'm wondering whether a negative entry or the threat of one would put pressure on the company to pay.


It is against the rules to use the BB as coercion. Do yourself the favour to understand the BB rules before you use the BB:

http://www.proz.com/siterules/blue_board_bb_blueboard/2

Particularly:

"9 The Blue Board may not be used to coerce. Using the Blue Board, or threatening to use the Blue Board, in such a way as to pressure an outsourcer or service provider into taking some action, is strictly prohibited."


Thanks for pointing this out. So, the post will be purely to let others know of my unwillingness to work again with the company.


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Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)  Identity Verified
Thailand
Local time: 00:37
Member (2004)
English to Thai
+ ...
Over-protection? Aug 11, 2015

Thomas T. Frost wrote:
It is against the rules to use the BB as coercion. Do yourself the favour to understand the BB rules before you use the BB:

Particularly:
"9 The Blue Board may not be used to coerce. Using the Blue Board, or threatening to use the Blue Board, in such a way as to pressure an outsourcer or service provider into taking some action, is strictly prohibited."


I do not understand how is coercion when the outsourcer did something bad to me and I need to post information to warn against such action, that is, to protect honest translators.
I met with a series of blueboard entry rejection situations. The site admin/moderator just said "Read BB rule."
In a latest instance, I needed to use the Proz "Scum" forum page to warn against a possible scum and many translators confirmed my correct movement.

Soonthon L.


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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:37
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
it is not true Aug 12, 2015

Susana E. Cano Méndez wrote:

They can't make a negative comment about you. They only can say if they are willing to work again with you or remain silent. While we, translators, can rate them and make comments about everything (friendliness, payments etc.). Or so I believe.


Good luck.


If you often check the blue boards of various companies, you would see many out-sourcers respond to negative comments by saying "this translator has done a poor job".


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Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
French to Danish
+ ...
Bad job Aug 12, 2015

jyuan_us wrote:

Susana E. Cano Méndez wrote:

They can't make a negative comment about you. They only can say if they are willing to work again with you or remain silent. While we, translators, can rate them and make comments about everything (friendliness, payments etc.). Or so I believe.


Good luck.


If you often check the blue boards of various companies, you would see many out-sourcers respond to negative comments by saying "this translator has done a poor job".


Susana may be thinking about WWA.

A late-paying outsourcer that I had left a sceptical comment about did that, but as I was able to prove they were lying, their reply was removed by support. To be taken seriously by support, they also have to have complained about poor quality within a reasonable time and not just when the translator complains about late payment.

One just needs to be sure only to leave objective comments for which evidence can be supplied.


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 19:37
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
I put only negative marks Aug 12, 2015

If I'm sure I will never work with a company again I would put a 1 in their BB record. Otherwise I will do nothing. BB is not about complaining, it is about telling someone: I've had it!

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Jan Willem van Dormolen  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 18:37
English to Dutch
+ ...
Of course Aug 12, 2015

That is what the BlueBoard is for.
If people don't put negative comments on BB, then BB is useless.


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Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 18:37
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
I sometimes give middle gradings Aug 12, 2015

If the agency always responds by saying 'the translator delivered a poor job', it reflects at least as much on the agency as on you.

If you can produce evidence of late payment - terms agreed, reminder e-mail(s) and finally evidence of when payment was made - then there can be no discussion.

Other translators know that wrangles over quality are usually more difficult to prove, so you do have a slight advantage, unless there are several agencies complaining about you.

I give middle gradings occasionally - especially about agency servers where you have to log in to collect files to translate and upload invoices.

I do not object to these on principle - several of my favourite clients have servers that are streamlined and easy to use. It can be done.

I have worked with a couple of agencies, however, that are simply hopeless. One demands a new password every three months, which means every time I go near them in practice, and it seems to take half an hour just to access the files... and there is hassle again over invoicing.

Another has three different access codes - a user name, a password AND a 'nickname', and I cannot always see which is which. Then you cannot upload your invoice until the month after delivery, and payment terms are 30 days after the end of the invoicing month... which is another way of saying 60+ days after delivery!

I add warnings like that to my low ratings, and clients have to live with them. (I give a 3-rating, which is neutral, if they do actually pay, but I don't like their system.)

In theory 5-ratings should only go to the exceptionally good agencies, and the rest should be given 4, but that is already a problem.

With real non-payers, i.e. NOT those where it is clearly a mistake and the money is in the bank 24 hours after your reminder, you owe it to colleagues to post a warning somewhere.


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 17:37
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
'Poor work' comment on a BB negative entry Aug 12, 2015

That isn't a comment I personally take seriously. For one thing, it isn't on YOUR record, it's on the record of a (past) client who you've already complained about. At worst that makes it tit-for-tat. But more importantly, the negative entry wouldn't exist if it was really true. ProZ.com will remove a negative entry if they are given proof of prior notification of quality complaints given to the translator. So any complaints are going to be minor and/or disputable.

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