| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | How come Blue Board 5, rate USD 0.024 Thread poster: Merab Dekano
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| Too cheap anywhere | Oct 28, 2015 |
Pradeep Kumar wrote:
Is it not paradoxical, that globalization, which is the source for creating so many translation requirements, is also the source for this low price trouble?
I work from India and a rate like 0.024$/word is not abnormal or unusual here. But, asking a rate like 0.09$/word is considered way too much and might be even looked at as a joke.
So, obviously when an agency based in India approaches a translator of European/US background, it will have the Indian price range in the background.
But, such a price will be definitely unfair for the Europe/US based translator as the living standards vary sharply.
So, I guess this has to be kept in mind, while judging agency rates.
And of course, we always have the right to reject a project, which we consider to be low-paying.
I can only, helplessly, empathize with Merab. We live in an unfair world.
Quite a few years ago I worked with an Indian outsourcer once because we agreed on USD 0.12/word. Also, check the Proz.com translation rate page. USD 0.024/word for English to German or whatever language pair is a joke. It doesn't matter how many people fall for it. It doesn't matter where you live. If you are that cheap, you are in the wrong profession. My opinion.
[Edited at 2015-10-28 16:17 GMT]
| | | | | unethical... | Oct 28, 2015 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
To me, a high or low rate does not make you a good or bad business partner.
To me, offering a very low rate is unethical behaviour, because it distorts the market... and gives the end-client the impression that a translation can be obtained with very little money, which, in turns, devalues our work and our profession. Sure, it's a free market, but even in a free market ethical behaviour must be observed... yes, self-imposed rules. Many companies do it, because they want to preserve their image and want to serve the community they live in. Not to be seen as a bunch of sharks...
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:28
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Pradeep Kumar wrote:
.....I work from India and a rate like 0.024$/word is not abnormal or unusual here......We live in an unfair world.
Greetings to Pradeep ! (and with an aside to Monica)
Certainly, English as spoken in India is of the highest standard and indeed, much of our best literature in the English language is written by Indians (e.g. David Davidar, Anurag Mathur, Chetan Bhagat, Sarnath Bannerjee, Arundhati Roy).
I do understand that a rate like 0.024$/word is not abnormal or unusual in India. The unfairness comes when an agency based in the West (e.g. Europe or North America) charges the end client Western rates. In such cases the agency can charge much lower rates than its competitors, and the profit margin is enormous.
What can be done about that? I, too, am helpless ! Perhaps it's just a global reality we must accept. And perhaps to understand why it happens we should all read Arundhati Roy's latest (amazing) book "Capitalism: A Ghost Story"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Capitalism-Ghost-Story-Arundhati-Roy/dp/1784780944/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1446046181&sr=1-1&keywords=Arundhati%20Roy
[Edited at 2015-10-28 15:50 GMT]
| | | | | It could be an endless discussion... | Oct 28, 2015 |
Rates differ, and it depends not only on currency rates and purchasing power but also on income taxes. I often hear that we in Russia work with very low rates - but we pay only 13% of personal income tax (or less if you buy a patent or register as individual entrepreneur). Still I recently lost a big customer of many years - they'd started working with an Indian translation agency, and I can't work at their rates. That's the way it goes...
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| To me, it's not an endless discussion | Oct 28, 2015 |
VicYas wrote:
Rates differ, and it depends not only on currency rates and purchasing power but also on income taxes. I often hear that we in Russia work with very low rates - but we pay only 13% of personal income tax (or less if you buy a patent or register as individual entrepreneur). Still I recently lost a big customer of many years - they'd started working with an Indian translation agency, and I can't work at their rates. That's the way it goes...
USD .024/word is not a professional rate, anywhere. Ask a professional.
| | | | | I'm sure a lot of professionals actually use this rate, certainly not in the USA or Western Europe | Oct 28, 2015 |
Translation agencies in Russia pay less than that to local translators, therefore I never work with them, but many people do. 0.024 USD corresponds to about 0.02 USD after personal income tax, or about 1.3 RUB per word, i.e. 350-390 RUB per page - it's considered a good rate for translations from/to English or German if you do not work with end customers.
| | | | | My point is... | Oct 28, 2015 |
Please, people, do not take me wrong: unless my children were starving and in rags, I would never work for an agency offering US$ 0,024 per word. Agencies working at those rate levels are ultimately doomed and plagued with severe quality problems, so I do not really consider them my target customer anyway.
My point is that when agencies offer work to us, they readily mention the rate, or we can ask them whether they are willing to accept our rate. If there is an agreement -- at what... See more Please, people, do not take me wrong: unless my children were starving and in rags, I would never work for an agency offering US$ 0,024 per word. Agencies working at those rate levels are ultimately doomed and plagued with severe quality problems, so I do not really consider them my target customer anyway.
My point is that when agencies offer work to us, they readily mention the rate, or we can ask them whether they are willing to accept our rate. If there is an agreement -- at whatever the rate -- and the agency honours the agreement in all senses, they are a reliable business partner: they did what was agreed.
I do not need the Blueboard to know things I can ask the customer, but to know whether they indeed are a reliable business partner. All customers say they are 100% reliable, don't they? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Merab Dekano 
Spain
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
If there is an agreement -- at whatever the rate -- and the agency honours the agreement in all senses, they are a reliable business partner: they did what was agreed.
I recall someone mentioned ethics, didn't they?
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| It was me... | Oct 28, 2015 |
Merab Dekano wrote: Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
If there is an agreement -- at whatever the rate -- and the agency honours the agreement in all senses, they are a reliable business partner: they did what was agreed.
I recall someone mentioned ethics, didn't they?
Don't know about you lot, but for me it's important... we need to look at the big picture...
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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: Merab Dekano wrote: Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
If there is an agreement -- at whatever the rate -- and the agency honours the agreement in all senses, they are a reliable business partner: they did what was agreed.
I recall someone mentioned ethics, didn't they? Don't know about you lot, but for me it's important... we need to look at the big picture...
In business it seem to be a rather silly notion to wait for others to behave ethically, some just don't, and on the long run it will do their business no good - all I can do is behave ethically myself and don't engage with such practices.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:28
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
USD .024/word is not a professional rate, anywhere. Ask a professional.
It is in India -we have the word of an Indian professional.
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Gabriele Demuth wrote:
In business it seem to be a rather silly notion to wait for others to behave ethically, some just don't, and on the long run it will do their business no good - all I can do is behave ethically myself and don't engage with such practices.
mine was a theoretical stance... I'm pretty aware that some companies don't behave ethically... and that damages our industry... do we give up? I don't think so. We don't discuss it and sweep under the carpet? No. I still like to raise the issue, apart from, obviously, not engaging in such practices...
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| Business ethics is not about rates and prices | Oct 28, 2015 |
Merab Dekano wrote: Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
If there is an agreement -- at whatever the rate -- and the agency honours the agreement in all senses, they are a reliable business partner: they did what was agreed.
I recall someone mentioned ethics, didn't they?
If business ethics were about rates and prices, I reckon that it would be implicitly immoral to make use of discounts at shops or special deals with hotels and car rentals instead of paying list prices. It would be even more immoral to try to negotiate a volume discount with any kind of supplier, and terribly immoral and bad karma to bargain at a popular market for that lovely old furniture.
Obviously everybody tries to strike the best possible deal everywhere, and every discerning buyer knows that they will not get a shiny Rolls-Royce for the price of a cranky old Vauxhall. If you are saying that agencies that pay very little are promising top-notch quality to their customers... THAT is unethical/immoral, because it is simply a lie.
| | | | Merab Dekano
Spain
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Think it this way | Oct 28, 2015 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
mine was a theoretical stance... I'm pretty aware that some companies don't behave ethically... and that damages our industry... do we give up? I don't think so. We don't discuss it and sweep under the carpet? No. I still like to raise the issue, apart from, obviously, not engaging in such practices...
I'm almost sure none of us would hire a starving person, with no papers nor clue, to clean our house and pay them 1 euro per hour (an average being 10). Sure the person could buy bread with that 1 euro coin, but I, myself, would feel bad about it.
Sure I would hire a person and pay them, say, 8 euros instead of 10, but 1 euro is a different story. It's just off.
| | | | Merab Dekano
Spain
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | It's part of it | Oct 28, 2015 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
If business ethics were about rates and prices, I reckon that it would be implicitly immoral to make use of discounts at shops or special deals with hotels and car rentals instead of paying list prices.
Ethics is not solely about price, I agree. The former is an attitude, the latter is one of the variables in the equation.
I sustain my initial point - agencies who pay four times less the standard rate/average rate should not be getting 5. It's not even about ethics; it's simply misleading. It did mislead me, for example for I thought if a guy or a girl produces 5 on BB, the agency, inter alia, pays at least the standard rate. Boy, I was wrong...
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