Italian translation firm requesting my social security number?
Thread poster: Inspectress

Inspectress
Ireland
Local time: 20:19
English to Irish
+ ...
Dec 26, 2015

Hey all,
I am a freelance translator and for the first time have been asked by a company based in Italy to supply my social security number and address. I have written back to tell them VAT is not applicable as I do not earn above the threshold of 75k.
Should this suffice or can they insist on more from me?
Thanks for any help.


 

Thayenga  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:19
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
No Dec 26, 2015

Regardless of where an agency or a client might be located, there is absolutely no need (or legal requirement) for you to provide them with your social security number. Ever.

[Edited at 2015-12-26 14:39 GMT]


 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 20:19
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Certificate? Dec 26, 2015

Some, perhaps many, countries will provide a cwrtificate declaring that you are up-to-date with your social security and/or tax payments. I have been asked to provide these in the past and both the French and Spanish authorities have obliged.

What would a simple number prove? Nothing, I would imagine! Companies do have to be careful nowadays with cross-border transactions, even within the EU. If not, they can be accused of money-laundering. But many of them don't really know what to do. They ask for all sorts of things they don't need and have no right to.


 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:19
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Address Dec 26, 2015

Inspectress wrote:

Hey all,
I am a freelance translator and for the first time have been asked by a company based in Italy to supply my social security number and address. I have written back to tell them VAT is not applicable as I do not earn above the threshold of 75k.
Should this suffice or can they insist on more from me?
Thanks for any help.


I work with Italian agencies all the time. Occasionally one of them asks me for my Tax Code, though I have no idea why. My regular agencies never ask for it. When asked, I give them the Tax Reference that the UK tax authorities send me, but never my social security number.

You should tell this agency that when you issue your invoice your address will appear on your invoice, and that in compliance with Irish tax regulations your invoices are not subject to VAT. Nothing else is required.

Before accepting any work from them, make sure you have *their* registered address and VAT number.

[Edited at 2015-12-26 15:35 GMT]


 

Inspectress
Ireland
Local time: 20:19
English to Irish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Abusive Dec 26, 2015

At this point in the evening, they have become abusive, using all caps, telling me that they are `stanco, stanco, stanco`meaning `tired`I think. They do not speak any English so I have to use Google Translate and they will not accept that I do not need to provide anything other than an address. They said either a VAT number or personal ID number is required in Italy.

I spent 20 plus hours working on a translation for this company at short notice and I quite frankly shocked at the unprofessionalism going on here. Their phone number has not been picked up since this afternoon.


 

Inspectress
Ireland
Local time: 20:19
English to Irish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Scam, I think :( Dec 26, 2015

Thank you all.

It is unfortunuately clear to me now that they have conned me and have no intentions of paying me for my work. I did some further research on them - they have a website but nobody picks up the phone, and it seems based on what I found out on another website that they have conned others also. They are Romanian and have set up many companies around the world and have been in trouble with the law before for not paying taxes, etc. I am sure that I will not get paid, this person embroiled me in an hour long email conversation going round in circles and using all caps when I politely explained that I do not need to provide my social. security number. They just wanted an excuse not to pay.
This is the first time I have been scammed.

I will report him but I dont think it will do any good. Goodbye to 200 odd euro.


 

Cornelius Gillen
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:19
Russian to English
+ ...
they may mean "codice fiscale" Dec 27, 2015

In Italy there seems to be a general tendency to ask for your codice fiscale (not really national insurance number, but a unique identifier); you need to provide that when you want services in Italy; I doubt if they want your NI number, they would not know what to do with it; on the other hand, your codice fiscale ... ! You can get one for free from your nearest Italian consulate, if you want one.

 

sailingshoes
Local time: 21:19
Spanish to English
They will ask for one Dec 29, 2015

I agree with the previous poster. The use of an EU TIN in Italy is ubiquitous. I use it to take out books in my local library. (In Italy it's the CF and in Ireland, where a single number serves almost all purposes including Tax and SS, it's the RSI number.)


From what I can see online, intra-EU bills to Italian companies must feature a TIN even if the biller doesn't have a VAT No (this requirement was introduced by the 2013 'Stability Law').

But even if it weren't strictly speaking a legal requirement, no Italian accountant would allow their client to accept invoices without a TIN.


 

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:19
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
I'm not sure if the SSN you were talking about is an equivalent to the US Social Security Number Dec 29, 2015

If you are in the USA you would have to provide your social security number (and your address) before they can give you any work. It is a legal requirement.

[Edited at 2015-12-30 00:49 GMT]


 

Yolanda Broad  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:19
Member (2000)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
SSN only required if both parties are located in the US Dec 30, 2015

jyuan_us wrote:

In the USA you would have to provide your social security number (and your address) before they can give you any work. It is a legal requirement.


Anyone located in the US who purchases services needs the SSN number to report to the Internal Revenue Service any amount over USD 600 which they have paid to service provider. It is irrelevant if either of the parties is not located in the US.


 

Amel Abdullah  Identity Verified
Jordan
Arabic to English
+ ...
@Yolanda Dec 30, 2015

Anyone located in the US who purchases services needs the SSN number to report to the Internal Revenue Service any amount over USD 600 which they have paid to service provider. It is irrelevant if either of the parties is not located in the US.


I am almost certain that a social security number must be provided if you are an American citizen living abroad (and working with a U.S. agency). You don't have to be physically located in the United States.

I would not provide this number to any company/entity outside the United States, however.

[Edited at 2015-12-30 09:58 GMT]


 

sailingshoes
Local time: 21:19
Spanish to English
Update Dec 30, 2015

I mentioned the Irish RSI number above, this is now the PPS and covers SS and revenue needs.

I'm finding it hard to get information on intra-EU business for sole traders exempt from paying VAT (I think the services-only VAT threshold is lower in Ireland than 70K, maybe 35K - the higher threshold is for turnover for goods only/goods plus services) in B2B transactions between sole traders and companies.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/topics/invoicing_en.htm says that
"In some EU countries, in certain cases, invoicing obligations may be more - or less - extensive." Since the place of performance of the service is legally Italy (i.e, where the customer is based), I guess Italian rules would apply. (Also I think most Irish accountants would advise you to invoice in accordance with foreign customer requirements). The invoice needs to be registered with Italian Revenue for VAT purposes regardless, so I wonder if they would require the supplier's TIN in all cases or just allow self-invoicing by the customer in this case?


 

sailingshoes
Local time: 21:19
Spanish to English
Update 2 Dec 30, 2015

Irish Revenue implies that Intra-EU service transactions may be carried out by sole traders not registered for VAT (turnover threshold 37.5 K).

However, it doesn't seem to provide invoicing requirements in these cases, other than the obligation (as Tom pointed out above) to include the necessary VAT details for the customer in all cases.

Irish Revenue does state: "Where the service is supplied to a VAT registered customer in another Member State, the supplier must ascertain the VAT Number of the customer and that number, together with an indication that the reverse charge applies, must be included on the supplier’s invoice, along with the supplier's own VAT number and details of the transaction." This raises the question of whether non registered sole traders may carry out B2B transactions at all.

Finally, Irish Revenue says:

"Revenue expects that as legitimate traders you will, on an ongoing basis, assess the
integrity of your supply chain and the suppliers, customers and goods within it. The
following are some examples of actions that can be taken in carrying out due
diligence tests when establishing a trading relationship with a supplier or a
customer:
"Obtain copies of the Certificate of Incorporation, if applicable, and
VAT registration certificates..." Followed by a whole list of other possible requests.

In other words Revenue IE expects regular demands for information in excess of the minimum legal requirements to be carried out regularly for due diligence purposes, which would justify the Italian customer's request on a best practice basis.


 

2G Trad  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 21:19
Member (2000)
English to Italian
+ ...
Tons of TINs Dec 30, 2015

sailingshoes wrote:
From what I can see online, intra-EU bills to Italian companies must feature a TIN even if the biller doesn't have a VAT No (this requirement was introduced by the 2013 'Stability Law').

The above-mentioned Italian Budget Law (Legge di Stabilità 2013) has introduced the requirement for OUTGOING invoices to feature the client's VAT number (for VAT registered EU clients) or the Italian Identification Number (Codice Fiscale, valid for tax and social security purpose) for Italian resident non-VAT registered clients.

Nothing but the address is required for invoices issued to non-resident non-VAT registered clients.

That said, for INCOMING invoices there are no specific requirements to fulfill in order for an Italian client to pay a non-Italian resident, non-VAT registered service provider (like the topic poster).

If the topic poster would like to provide them with an Irish TIN to please them, he/she can have a look here.

Cheers
Gianni


 

Yolanda Broad  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:19
Member (2000)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
Yes Dec 30, 2015

Yes. Thank you for clarifying.

Amel Abdullah wrote:

Anyone located in the US who purchases services needs the SSN number to report to the Internal Revenue Service any amount over USD 600 which they have paid to service provider. It is irrelevant if either of the parties is not located in the US.


I am almost certain that a social security number must be provided if you are an American citizen living abroad (and working with a U.S. agency). You don't have to be physically located in the United States.

I would not provide this number to any company/entity outside the United States, however.

[Edited at 2015-12-30 09:58 GMT]


 


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Italian translation firm requesting my social security number?

Advanced search







SDL MultiTerm 2019
Guarantee a unified, consistent and high-quality translation with terminology software by the industry leaders.

SDL MultiTerm 2019 allows translators to create one central location to store and manage multilingual terminology, and with SDL MultiTerm Extract 2019 you can automatically create term lists from your existing documentation to save time.

More info »
WordFinder Unlimited
For clarity and excellence

WordFinder is the leading dictionary service that gives you the words you want anywhere, anytime. Access 260+ dictionaries from the world's leading dictionary publishers in virtually any device. Find the right word anywhere, anytime - online or offline.

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search