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About Paypal Fees
Thread poster: xxxGaelleSTW

xxxGaelleSTW  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 12:10
English to French
+ ...
Jan 21, 2016

Hi, All

I was wondering how do you manage fees, in case you are paid by Paypal?
Because when your client send you the payment, you loose some money...which can reach to a big sum when it's cumulated.
Do you charge your clients for this?

Thanks for your answers

Gaelle


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Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 12:10
English to Croatian
+ ...
Some suggestions... Jan 21, 2016

You may indicate to your client that your total sum goes 30% up if you are being paid by PayPal, while if paid through other means it stays the same.

That's one option.


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Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:10
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
‘If paying by PayPal, please add 6% to cover charges.’ Jan 21, 2016

GaelleSTW wrote:

Hi, All

I was wondering how do you manage fees, in case you are paid by Paypal?
Because when your client send you the payment, you loose some money...which can reach to a big sum when it's cumulated.
Do you charge your clients for this?

Thanks for your answers

Gaelle


I state the following on any invoices being paid via PayPal:

If paying by PayPal, please add 6% to cover charges.

However, only around 5% of my client pay me via PayPal. Most of clients pay me via IBAN bank transfer to my € account in Spain. I then send these euros to my £ here in the UK (where I live) using a currency exchange service. My c.e. service does not charge me a fee for the transfers (as I regularly send largish amounts to myself), and consistently offers the best exchange rates. Way, way better than anything your regular bank would offer you. I also know that since I started using my particular currency exchange service, quite a few new ones have popped up, and I keep meaning to try a few of the new ones (TransferWise, etc.), but so far I have been very happy with mine: Smart Currency Exchange (Smart Currency Exchange ).

PS: ‘6%’ is what I once calculated I usually lose when a client pays me via PayPal. Watch out with PayPal, as this this can really add up. E.g., 6% of €2,000 = €120! PayPal get you in two ways: they charge a fee, which is a fixed % of the total amount, plus, they select a terrible exchange rate.

[Edited at 2016-01-21 10:51 GMT]


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Antonio Arizcun  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:10
Member (2013)
English to Spanish
+ ...
The agency transfers money to their paypal account Jan 21, 2016

The only agency that pays me via Paypal have worked out a way for us all to avoid charges. They transfer the funds to their Paypal account and then transfer it to my account, that way there is no charge for me. It takes a few days for the money to show in my account but it is totally worth it.

This could be a great way forward for agencies around the world because if the agency is from another country, as it is often the case, international bank transfers tend to carry a fee.

[Edited at 2016-01-21 11:21 GMT]


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Gabriele Demuth  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:10
Member (2014)
English to German
Add 5 %? Jan 21, 2016

I thought about adding 5% for PayPal payments and may add that to invoices for new clients, my worry is though that agencies and their accounts departments might conveniently 'overlook' that and pay the invoice amount only. In that case it would be a hassle to ask them for the extra 5%.

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Georgi Kovachev  Identity Verified
Bulgaria
Local time: 13:10
Member (2010)
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
What about a bank from an international group Jan 21, 2016

Hi Gaelle,

Do you know that one bank from a big international group deducts as low as EUR 4 per transaction regarding online payments in foreign currencies, which are credited to a current account within the group? I am referring to a Bulgarian bank, and this could be country-specific, but you could also check with the banks in your country. If payments are made within a group, it could be much more cost-effective for both parties compared to using PayPal.

@ Michael
I see that you have an account in Spain. Don't you have to reside permanently there in order to open a bank account at any local bank? Could I open one in any EU country if I am not a resident thereof?


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FarkasAndras
Local time: 12:10
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Nope Jan 21, 2016

Antonio Arizcun wrote:

The only agency that pays me via Paypal have worked out a way for us all to avoid charges. They transfer the funds to their Paypal account and then transfer it to my account, that way there is no charge for me. It takes a few days for the money to show in my account but it is totally worth it.

This could be a great way forward for agencies around the world because if the agency is from another country, as it is often the case, international bank transfers tend to carry a fee.

Using your paypal balance does not avoid paying fees for receiving business payments.
I see two options for what is really happening:
1) You are being charged a fee, you just haven't noticed it
2) The agency tells paypal that these these payments are "personal payments" instead of purchases of a service in order to avoid fees. I'm sure paypal would call this practice fradulent.

Paypal fees list: https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

Here's an edited screenshot from my own paypal account. The first payment was a donation, i.e. a personal transfer with zero fee. The second was a payment for a translation, and as such it is subject to fees (paid by the seller, i.e. deducted from the sum received by the translator selling translation services):



[Edited at 2016-01-21 14:16 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 12:10
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Build it into your rate Jan 21, 2016

GaelleSTW wrote:
Because when your client send you the payment, you loose some money...which can reach to a big sum when it's cumulated. Do you charge your clients for this?


I regard it as a normal part of doing business. Accepting PayPal makes me more attractive to clients for whom I may be no better than another translator, except that that other translator does not accept PayPal. If you don't like it, well, raise your overall rate by 5%.


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Antonio Arizcun  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:10
Member (2013)
English to Spanish
+ ...
I couldn't tell you exactly how they do it Jan 21, 2016

But it is something similar to what i have explained. I certainly am not paying any fees and as far as i am concerned paypal is aware that the agency is doing it because it is them who advise them it will take a bit longer for the payment to come through. Either way it works for me, all I had to do was change my account to a premium one to declare the money I am receiving but that does not imply any extra charges either.
FarkasAndras wrote:

Antonio Arizcun wrote:

The only agency that pays me via Paypal have worked out a way for us all to avoid charges. They transfer the funds to their Paypal account and then transfer it to my account, that way there is no charge for me. It takes a few days for the money to show in my account but it is totally worth it.

This could be a great way forward for agencies around the world because if the agency is from another country, as it is often the case, international bank transfers tend to carry a fee.

Using your paypal balance does not avoid paying fees for receiving business payments.
I see two options for what is really happening:
1) You are being charged a fee, you just haven't noticed it
2) The agency tells paypal that these these payments are "personal payments" instead of purchases of a service in order to avoid fees. I'm sure paypal would call this practice fradulent.

Paypal fees list: https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

Here's an edited screenshot from my own paypal account. The first payment was a donation, i.e. a personal transfer with zero fee. The second was a payment for a translation, and as such it is subject to fees (paid by the seller, i.e. deducted from the sum received by the translator selling translation services):



[Edited at 2016-01-21 14:16 GMT]


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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:10
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
You must have mis-read your account transactions Jan 21, 2016

Antonio Arizcun wrote:

The only agency that pays me via Paypal have worked out a way for us all to avoid charges. They transfer the funds to their Paypal account and then transfer it to my account, that way there is no charge for me. It takes a few days for the money to show in my account but it is totally worth it.

This could be a great way forward for agencies around the world because if the agency is from another country, as it is often the case, international bank transfers tend to carry a fee.

[Edited at 2016-01-21 11:21 GMT]


Quote from the PayPal's website: "Buying is always free with us. When you sell with us, you get some of the most competitive rates in the business. It’s 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction."

In the first couple of months I started to used PayPal, I didn't realize a certain amount was taken from every payment I had received.

No matter how the payer makes a payment, the recipient always receives an amount with a percentage deducted from the amount sent.

[Edited at 2016-01-22 11:18 GMT]


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FarkasAndras
Local time: 12:10
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Wait what? Jan 21, 2016

Antonio Arizcun wrote:

But it is something similar to what i have explained. I certainly am not paying any fees and as far as i am concerned paypal is aware that the agency is doing it because it is them who advise them it will take a bit longer for the payment to come through. Either way it works for me, all I had to do was change my account to a premium one to declare the money I am receiving but that does not imply any extra charges either.


None of that makes sense. Paypal waiving the fees they make their living from? For no reason, regarding commercial transactions? And a paypal transfer "taking longer"? And who do you need to declare the money you are receiving to and how does a premium account help with that? I'm at a loss.
I still think the only realistic scenario is that the agency declares the transfers as private transactions.


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Paulinho Fonseca  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 08:10
Member (2011)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
'...you loose some money...' Jan 22, 2016

...you loose some money...

I do not see it as loosing money, at least for my Paypal account. Fees are reasonable and if I use my Skrill card in Brasil, withdrawing will cost me some USD 6 each time I use ATMs.

Good luck.


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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:10
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Lose Jan 22, 2016

Paulinho Fonseca wrote:

...you loose some money...

I do not see it as loosing money, at least for my Paypal account. Fees are reasonable and if I use my Skrill card in Brasil, withdrawing will cost me some USD 6 each time I use ATMs.

Good luck.


It's "lose", not "loose". We're translators, aren't we?

[Edited at 2016-01-22 10:16 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 12:10
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Yes, you can receive money without paying fees Jan 22, 2016

Antonio Arizcun wrote:
The only agency that pays me via Paypal have worked out a way for us all to avoid charges. They transfer the funds to their Paypal account and then transfer it to my account, that way there is no charge for me.


Yes, a personal transfer from one PayPal account to another PayPal account is free in and between some countries. For some reason, most agencies do not, however, send money as a "personal transfer". I don't know why.

It takes a few days for the money to show in my account but it is totally worth it.


One reason why it may take a while is if they fund their PayPal account using an e-cheque, which is not available to senders in most countries. For larger amounts, e.g. more than about EUR 200, using PayPal to transfer money to another PayPal account if the sender uses an e-cheque, the transaction is free.

It is a mistake to believe that all that is written on the pages that you hit when you google for PayPal's fees (or when you see their page named "fees") is the only information about PayPal fees. There are many hidden ifs and buts that you can find if you google hard enough or happen to land on the right page.


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José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 08:10
English to Portuguese
+ ...
PayPal policies forbid charging payers for fees Jan 22, 2016

I've read tales of PayPal freezing accounts, and "scooping the loot" on policy infringement, though not form anyone I know personally. As the Brazilian saying goes, "He was so safe, that he died of old age."

Right now, I took the trouble of logging in there and retrieving the specific section in PayPal's user agreement:

4.3 No Surcharges. You, Receiving User, agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods and/or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for payment transactions made with other payment methods.


In Brazil, PayPal deducts 6.5%~7.5% in fees immediately upon crediting any sum received. To top it up, they openly adopt a 3.5% lower-than-market exchange rate to transfer funds held with them in a foreign currency to a Brazilian bank, in BRL (only currency allowed). Bottom line: PayPal costs ~10% of the total price, and they won't let you add that to your invoice.

I pay a BRL 60 (~USD 15 nowadays) fee to receive a foreign bank/wire transfer at my Brazilian bank (Itau), if I do the forex transaction myself online. I've heard from colleagues who paid 3-4 times that for the same service, in the same country, via HSBC. So that's about how much your mileage may vary.

How do I steer clear from that PayPal policy?

My standard rate is stated for payment via PayPal in two weeks.
I offer my clients the option of paying me via a bank/wire transfer or P2P services (like Moneygram, Western Union, etc.). If they do it, they'll be entitled to a 10% discount!

This prevents PayPal from penalizing me, since their system will NOT be involved in the transaction at any time! I am free to offer discounts to anyone I wish, and I won't be surcharging anyone for paying me via PayPal, as long as my client simply won't be using it at all, in order to enjoy that discount.

10% doesn't mean much in Brazil. Presently it's worth about 20 days' (sic!) interest on rolling a credit card debt. However it represents a lot in most other countries, so my clients overseas love this option. I wouldn't get these 10% either way. My domestic clients can use our local banking system, much faster than PayPal.


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