Pages in topic:   [1 2] >
How to quote for the EU market.
Thread poster: Phoenix III

Phoenix III  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:59
Member (2013)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Feb 17, 2016

Good morning!

I have very little experience working with European companies but recently I've experienced an increased demand for my rates from EU countries and a severe decrease in projects from local US companies. My problem is two fold: The potential EU clients request prices not only in euros (of course!) but per thousand words and/or pages and I am clueless. On the other hand, I feel I have to consider wire fees or hefty PayPal fees. Last but not least, some insist on receiving copies of recommendations from current clients and I don't want to go that route. I find it somehow invasive and I don't want to disclose who I work for. So far, I've gotten away from this by waving the NDA flag but with Europe it doesn't seem to work. Thanks for your input!


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
French to Danish
+ ...
Not really common for Europe Feb 17, 2016

A few comments:

"Per thousand words" should not cause any problems. You move the decimal point three places. It's mostly in the UK they do that, I think.

"Per page" is not a measure I can handle either. You can stuff thousands of words onto one page if you want. I need to know the word count. A word price is the most common.

As for transfers, you should have a look at TransferWise, which shouldn't cost more than 1 % in fees, whereas PayPal happily relieves you of up to 8 % of your earnings.

Recommendations are just something I can't and won't give so if they insist and my Pro status and WWA are not enough, no deal. It's not the most common to ask for this, though.

I don't recognise what you describe as common for Europe. But when you try to break into a new market, there is always the risk that those who need more translators are those for whom good translators won't work because such agencies are too complicated. I've turned many down due to unreasonable NDAs/contracts or unreasonable penalty systems. Some seem to be confusing freelancers with underlings, and I happily leave that role to others.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Phoenix III  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:59
Member (2013)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Fair translation rates for EU market. Feb 17, 2016

Thanks so much for your insight, Thomas. Perhaps I did not make myself clear. It's not about the decimals. It's about what is a "reasonable" rate in euros? I have my rates for the USA market and I know that some may charge more and some seem to give it away for a penny per word these days but what would be fair? This is what I mean for common as in "average going rate". Hope this will clarify my point. Thanks again.

Direct link Reply with quote
 

Inga Petkelyte  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 14:59
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
In addition Feb 17, 2016

In addition to what Thomas said:

1) "Per page" - use an EU standard page as a refrence. It is 1500 characters spaces included. Make sure to specify it as some regions use a page of 1800 or 1750 characters.
2) References - just tell them it's confidential and that you can prove your capability by doing a test. Serious conractors will agree with this approach, and those insisting on references most probably will be form the database fans, nor real jobs ever.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Gabriele Demuth  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:59
Member (2014)
English to German
References Feb 17, 2016

Inga Petkelyte wrote:

In addition to what Thomas said:

1) "Per page" - use an EU standard page as a refrence. It is 1500 characters spaces included. Make sure to specify it as some regions use a page of 1800 or 1750 characters.
2) References - just tell them it's confidential and that you can prove your capability by doing a test. Serious conractors will agree with this approach, and those insisting on references most probably will be form the database fans, nor real jobs ever.


I don't provide client's references either as I also feel that this is inappropriate, however, I find quite a lot of agencies (and I tend to deal mainly with EU agencies) ask for that in their forms. Has this maybe something to do with ISO and EN standards?

I do not offer tests though, I offer a selection of relevant samples.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Inga Petkelyte  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 14:59
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
Doubting Feb 17, 2016

Gabriele, I doubt this is any kind of official standards. I'd say it may be an internal policy of the company. I say this because the vast majority of my clients are in Europe, too, and some don't include me in their data bases because of the lack of references while some others don't even ask. It is also curious that after offering a test, very few do go for it. Your idea of relevant samples is very valid, especially if you have them in your profile or can attach as a PDF file.

Direct link Reply with quote
 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
French to Danish
+ ...
Characters Feb 17, 2016

Inga Petkelyte wrote:

1) "Per page" - use an EU standard page as a refrence. It is 1500 characters spaces included. Make sure to specify it as some regions use a page of 1800 or 1750 characters.


That still doesn't give me the word count.

You'd still have to count the characters on each page to find out if they actually correspond to that standard page.

Too awkward for me. I need to be able to count the words. If the client then wants to convert that to their awkward measures that correspond to the typewriter era from last century, they can do that.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Gabriele Demuth  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:59
Member (2014)
English to German
Samples Feb 17, 2016

Inga Petkelyte wrote:

Gabriele, I doubt this is any kind of official standards. I'd say it may be an internal policy of the company. I say this because the vast majority of my clients are in Europe, too, and some don't include me in their data bases because of the lack of references while some others don't even ask. It is also curious that after offering a test, very few do go for it. Your idea of relevant samples is very valid, especially if you have them in your profile or can attach as a PDF file.


No-one has taken me up on this offer either, which indicates that they follow their procedures and if you don't fit the bill then they move on and find someone who will comply


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Inga Petkelyte  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 14:59
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
Why? Feb 17, 2016

Thomas T. Frost wrote:


That still doesn't give me the word count.

You'd still have to count the characters on each page to find out if they actually correspond to that standard page.

...


Why? If your source can be counted, just divide the whole amount of characters by 1500 and you'll get the number of pages. If your source is a not convertible PDF, offfer a quote on the target language word/page count.

An EU standar page is roughly 250 to 300 words depending on the language. Try to excercise the calculation, you might need it in the future.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
French to Danish
+ ...
Characters Feb 17, 2016

If you can't count the words, then how do you count the characters?

An EU standard page may be 250 to 300 words, but if you can't count the words, then how do you know the actual pages to be translated contain that amount of words - or characters? Does anybody actually compose documents so they conform to some EU word/page or character/page standard?

When we were all using typewriters, there was not such thing as font size and different fonts, but different types and sizes of fonts make it impossible today to use "a page" in any meaningful way.

If it's impossible to count, I propose a target word price, or perhaps in specific cases an hourly rate.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Phoenix III  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:59
Member (2013)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Page/word count Feb 17, 2016

I will never agree to quote per page. There are considerations to take into account: Layout, margins, fonts, paper size, etc. It can be tricky. I find the one thousand word query reasonable and I was curious to see if anybody has been asked to quote per thousand words.

I find the sample translation interesting. I will have a file with different subjects ready for "whenever". A lot of agencies request sample tests but I'm thinking that if 4 or 5 people are asked the same thing... we are all working for free because they just may be splitting the entire file!

Thanks everyone!


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Inga Petkelyte  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 14:59
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
Let's work on this Feb 17, 2016

I am used to quote both per word and per page, due to different locations of my clients, let me try help you both to domesticate this "animal".

Thomas - in non convertible files, you can't make an exact calculation based on any parameter, neither per word nor per page nor per character set. How do you quote in such cases?

Quoting per page: I assume, there is a misunderstanding what is a standard page. (If I am phantasizing, stop me ). A standard page on which you quote is not a printed page that you see but a certain fixed amount of character. In fact, I get documents with various standard pages per typed page and sometimes just a part of a standard page in a full printed page.
This way, despite of the layout, format, font sizes, bold-no bold letters, etc. the calculation is very clear. MSWord has a wordcount feature, it shows how many words, lines, characters with and no spaces are there in the document. I don't use CAT but I suppose their wordcount applications are even more sophisticated. So you take the whole numebr of characters and divide per "standard page", i.e., the defined numeber of characters, and then you get the number of pages.

Let's say, all what I've written above in this post (the title excluded) contains
1024 character no spaces,
then
1024 : 1500 (remember, the standard EU page) = 0,68 EU page
If the page were 1800 characters (Baltic States standard), then it would be
1024 : 1800 = 0,57 pages

Thus, don't feel scared away by the request to quote per page, only bear in mind there are different page sizes.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
French to Danish
+ ...
I still don't see the point Feb 17, 2016

If I can't count the words, I either quote per target words (as I already said) or count the words in a few lines manually, then multiply by the number of lines. In a large document, one can then count the number of lines per page to simplify the counting. Or for certain types of documents, I might quote an hourly rate. Or one can try an OCR tool to get an approximate word count.

Then you say that a standard page is a certain amount of characters and explain what we all know, that you can count them with Word or a CAT tool. So if you have a document that can be counted, then what's the point quoting per 'page' when you can just as well count the words, which is the most common standard today?

If the client wants to mess around with standard EU pages, they are free to do so, but I won't do it.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Inga Petkelyte  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 14:59
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
Not the most common Feb 17, 2016

Thomas, the point is exactly that counting per word may be most common standard for you but not necessarily in the industry in general. As Phoenix III referred already in the initial post, the request in Europe is often to give a rate per page. For EU institutions it is ONLY per page. In a large part of Europe quoting is per page, not per word.
If you personally don't like it it's with you but someone who wants to enter certain markets should be ready to accept local customs.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
French to Danish
+ ...
Must depend on country Feb 17, 2016

In my language combinations EN, FR and DA, I only very rarely come across demands for rates per page, so in my case, it's so rare that I simply ignore it.

I don't fulfil the EU's requirements for tenders, so I can ignore that too, but the EU is such a bloated and inefficient bureaucracy that it doesn't surprise me if they still measure translations as if they were typewritten. Eurocrats live in their own bubble far from the real world.

Maybe certain countries use it more often, but I don't seem to work in the languages concerned – thankfully, as I have a real problem working with people who insist on doing things as if we were still in 1920.

Anyway, the asker asked what a reasonable rate in Europe is. To that I would say that I don't have different rates for different markets, so if a foreign client wants a rate in another currency, I use the European Central Bank's reference rate to convert my euro rate, but my foreign currency rate will change with the exchange rate in case of future quotes.


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Pages in topic:   [1 2] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

How to quote for the EU market.

Advanced search







CafeTran Espresso
You've never met a CAT tool this clever!

Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer. Accept jobs from clients who use SDL Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools. Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free

More info »
memoQ translator pro
Kilgray's memoQ is the world's fastest developing integrated localization & translation environment rendering you more productive and efficient.

With our advanced file filters, unlimited language and advanced file support, memoQ translator pro has been designed for translators and reviewers who work on their own, with other translators or in team-based translation projects.

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search