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This is an insult
Thread poster: Darmali

Darmali  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 23:14
English to Indonesian
+ ...
Apr 22, 2016

Just saw a job posting in my language pair:

Job type: Translation/editing/proofing job

Service required: Translation

Languages: English to Indonesian


Job description:


A 350 word blog about our services we provide in Japan by retrieving people's documents on their behalf.
Source format: Microsoft Word
Delivery format: Microsoft Word

Budget and payment details:

0.05 JPY to 0.055 JPY per word
(17.50 JPY to 19.25 JPY estimated total)
Further payment details: The total payment is 2000YEN

Payment method: Online via PayPal
Payment 1 day after date of order

Estimation in your preferred currency (using today's conversion rate):

$0.000 USD to $0.001 USD per word
($0.16 USD to $0.18 USD estimated total)

Poster country: Japan

This job was posted by a Blue Board outsourcer with a "likelihood of working again" average rating of 5 out of 5

This is an insult coming from an agency in Japan, where prices are sky high. They want us to work for free or next to nothing. You cannot buy a bowl of instant noodles at a roadside stall or buy a bottle of drinking water for USD 0.16-0.18. Do they think that we live for free?
Proz used to provide a notification on low rates, something like "the rates offered are x% lower than the average rate quoted", but it seems to have disappeared. Can anybody at Proz explain why?
I propose that Proz bans agencies like this if they post such low rates three times, from posting jobs.

Angela

.


 

Gabriele Demuth  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:14
Member (2014)
English to German
Agree Apr 22, 2016

There are other sites where such posts are common, they can go and post there, but I thought Proz was a bit more professional.

I also noticed that the notifications have gone.


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:14
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
You're a freelancer... Apr 22, 2016

Darmali wrote:
This is an insult


You're a freelancer: grow a thick skin. Not everything is personal. If you want to be appreciated appropriately, get an employer, not a client.


 

Darmali  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 23:14
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
You are right Apr 22, 2016

I agree with you, Gabriele. Proz asks us translators to act professionally and pay professional fees, but they tolerate unprofessional conduct by job posters.

Angela


 

Darmali  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 23:14
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I only ask for fair compensation Apr 22, 2016

Samuel,

I consider this an insult to translators in general, offering us to work for nothing. I am not seeking appreciation, I only want fair compensation for my work, which is what everybody wants.

Angela


 

Thomas Pfann  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:14
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
2,000 JPY (18 USD) for 350 words Apr 22, 2016

The price they would like to pay for this translation is 2,000 Yen (approx. 18 US$). This is still a low rate (even for half an hour's work) but no reason to feel insulted.

I guess job posters cannot just leave the field for the per-word rate blank even when they rather enter their idea of a lump sum for the project (which they have done here in the field 'Further payment details'). I don't know how exactly the system works and what they did to end up with this low per-word rate (probably just a wrong decimal - entering 20 instead of 2000 as their overall price for the job), but it is just a technicality.

This seems to lead to confusion very often so I think the job posting system needs to be tweaked in a way that allows job posters to not enter a per-word rate if they don't wish to.


 

Darmali  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 23:14
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Job post is inconsistent Apr 22, 2016

Thomas,

This is what they stated:

Budget and payment details:

0.05 JPY to 0.055 JPY per word
(17.50 JPY to 19.25 JPY estimated total)

Further payment details: The total payment is 2000YEN

Payment method: Online via PayPal
Payment 1 day after date of order.


Estimation in your preferred currency (using today's conversion rate):

$0.000 USD to $0.001 USD per word
($0.16 USD to $0.18 USD estimated total)

The conversion rate from JPY to USD is correct, maybe the total payment should be 20.00 JPY (which is closer to 19.25JPY) .
Don't they read their job offers before posting it?

Angela


 

Thomas Pfann  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:14
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
System needs to be improved Apr 22, 2016

Exactly. This is what they wrote:

The total payment is 2000YEN


The per-word rate is system generated (and clearly wrong).

Darmali wrote:

Don't they read their job offers before posting it?



And this should be the main criticism in this case. (Assuming they do see a full and final version of their post before submitting it.)

This kind of mistake seems to happen very often which is why I think the system (in particular the mask where job posters enter their job details) might need some improvement.


 

Philippe Etienne  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 17:14
Member
English to French
Quite common indeed Apr 22, 2016

Thomas Pfann wrote:
... (probably just a wrong decimal - entering 20 instead of 2000 as their overall price for the job), but it is just a technicality...

20kwords written 20000 or 20,000 or 20.000 can lead to silly calculated figures, but one must read beyond pre-chewed figures.

Philippe


 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 16:14
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Mistake rather than insult? Apr 22, 2016

I agree with those who have said it's likely to be a mistake - unless the outsourcer confirms it. If it had been a job for me I'd have sent a quick few words asking for their real budget and giving my rates before exploding. Maybe the mistake would put everyone off and I'd end up with a job that pays OKicon_smile.gif.

 

Edward Vreeburg  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:14
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
insult or not... Apr 22, 2016

I regularly see "offers"at half, 1/3 or even 1/4 of what I normally charge... If we ban all of those posters I guess we might as well do away with Proz... I'm sure that despite all complaints there are also plenty of translators here that happily take this on at 18 USD/ 30 min...

 

Thayenga  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 17:14
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Proofreading required. Apr 22, 2016

Thomas Pfann wrote:

Darmali wrote:

Don't they read their job offers before posting it?



And this should be the main criticism in this case. (Assuming they do see a full and final version of their post before submitting it.)


They do get to see a full version of their post, just like we do when submitting a quote.


 

David Lin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:14
Member (2013)
English to Chinese
+ ...

MODERATOR
Either ignore it or .... Apr 22, 2016

I like other posters think it is "very likely" a mistake when the advertiser filled in the online form. There's really no need to get burned.

You can either ignore it like you read something useless in daily newspaper ad columns, or write to the advertiser asking for clarification.

David


 

Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 17:14
Member
English to Italian
I, for one Apr 22, 2016

Edward Vreeburg wrote:

I'm sure that despite all complaints there are also plenty of translators here that happily take this on at 18 USD/ 30 min...



I would accept $35-40 per hour without complaints, especially if, in their turn, the client didn't complain about the time it actually took me to do the job... (i.e. I've read more than one "offer" where the client says they'll pay by the hour, but also specifies in advance how many hours you should take to complete the job...)

In this specific case it would probably be something like 1.5 hours, so $18*3/350=$ .15 per word, which (IMO) wouldn't be bad at all, especially for "generic" or light marketing text...


 

Danguole Kotryna Kapkanaite  Identity Verified
Italy
Member (2016)
Italian to Lithuanian
+ ...
This one might be a mistake, but... Apr 22, 2016

There are many agencies that send me requests to translate a few words and offer 1 euro, 4 euros and so on. There's one agency in Italy in particular, I've explained to them many times that I apply a min fee for such jobs, but they don't seem to understand. I've ignored their 1,5 eur "translation projects" a couple of times, what happened is they called me on my mobile later, asking if I had received their "offer" and if I'd like to accept it. They wouldn't pay more as that was their "budget" for the "project" (Can you seriously call 1,5 Eur a "budget"?). I found it funny at first, sad later, an insult after receiving their phone calls. By the way, the agency has 4,9 LWA index here on Proz.

 
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