Incorrect VAT number on French agency's web site
Thread poster: Samuel Murray

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 12:20
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Apr 30

G'day everyone

On the web site of a French client of mine, they give their VAT number and business registration number as follows:
SIRET 222 333 444 55555 - TVA FR 11 222 444 55555 - R.C. B 222 333 444
(I changed the actual numbers for this post)

But I have learnt the hard way that one must always check new clients' VAT numbers on VIES before issuing the invoice, because you don't want to realise that the VAT number is wrong by the time you do your tax returns. And of course, "FR 11 222 444 55555" turned out to be an invalid VAT number. I also had no luck finding them in the French chamber of commerce register.

I'm not alone, it turns out. According to this helpful article:
On more than one occasion, I have had issues obtaining a valid intracommunity VAT number (numéro de TVA intracommunautaire) from French clients or service providers. ... Sometimes I have been given a 16-digit or 14-digit number instead of an 11-digit number. This is because the client or service provider is confusing their VAT number with their SIRET number.
...I was eventually able to figure out what their actual VAT number is: FR 11 222 333 444

Samuel


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Ricki Farn
Germany
Local time: 12:20
Member (2005)
English to German
Interesting! Apr 30

Is there a general rule for deriving the VAT number from the other ones?

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Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:20
French to English
France: SIREN and SIRET Apr 30

The SIREN number comprises 9 digits: 123 456 789
The SIRET number comprises 14 digits: 123 456 789 00011
My SIREN number has been the same since 1994, when I set up. Successive changes of address have not altered the SIREN number, but the last five digits of the SIRET number have changed each time I have changed address.

The EU VAT number is based on the SIREN number. It is preceded by FR, and then, in my case, one number and then one letter, thus: FR0A 123 456 789. So my European VAT number comprises 13 digits.

No, there is no general rule. The FR is the obvious bit. As for the number and the letter that follow, I had to ask my tax office to provide me with the number. I don't think it can be guessed at or worked out.

[Edited at 2017-04-30 22:11 GMT]


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:20
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Always good to check in advance May 1

In order to avoid any issues with your international clients' VAT, it is best to check yourself in the "VIES VAT number validation".

You can do so easily here:
http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/


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Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 12:20
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
Danish companies can be found in the Companies Register, CVR May 1

You type in the name of the company and click. If that doesn't work, e.g. if you have not spelled it exactly as registered, or you don't know the exact name, try the owner or the street address.

https://datacvr.virk.dk/data/

The CVR number = VAT number will be shown.

There is an English option if the Danish is not clear enough.

I don't know any rule for 'guessing' or working it out, but it always has 8 digits. Mine is DK 27093892
It is not the same as the 8-digit phone number.


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Lori Cirefice  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 12:20
French to English
Always check vies May 2

For new clients, and once a year for long-standing clients.

But shouldn't have noticed earlier? Do you not have monthly intracom vat declarations like we do in France (DES)?


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 12:20
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@Lori May 3

Lori Cirefice wrote:
But shouldn't have noticed earlier? Do you not have monthly intracom vat declarations like we do in France (DES)?


Quarterly. Which was when I noticed it.


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cvz
France
Local time: 12:20
French to Dutch
+ ...
this site helps May 4

http://www.ebsoft.org/mambo/ressources/clefs.htm

For French companies you type in the SIREN (which you can always find on Internet) and this site will give you the correct VAT of that company


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Incorrect VAT number on French agency's web site

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