Direct Client in Italy does not want to pay
Thread poster: Loreta Saddi

Loreta Saddi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:38
Member
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Jul 24

Hello everyone,

I did a job for someone in May (he is Italian and it was the first time I worked with him). After I delivered the job he said he was going to pay by PayPal and has been giving me excuses ever since.

Is there anything I can do to make him pay me? He doesn't have a profile here (just on Facebook and Linked In). I thought of hiring someone and giving them 50% of whatever amount they could get from him.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:38
French to English
It depends Jul 24

Loreta Saddi wrote:

Hello everyone,

I did a job for someone in May (he is Italian and it was the first time I worked with him). After I delivered the job he said he was going to pay by PayPal and has been giving me excuses ever since.

Is there anything I can do to make him pay me? He doesn't have a profile here (just on Facebook and Linked In). I thought of hiring someone and giving them 50% of whatever amount they could get from him.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!


What you decide to do will depend on whether the amount owed makes it worth you chasing up the payment. Refer back to the conditions for late/non-payment you established at the start. If you didn't, it's going to be more difficult.
One way or another, you will need to do the following:
- prove that the work was ordered
- prove that you supplied the work as ordered
- prove that the work you supplied was received by the client
- prove that the price to be paid was agreed upon
- demonstrate what the time limit for payment was
- demonstrate that what would happen if payment was late was made clear at the outset.
The simplest way to prove all of these will be by making sure you have written confirmation of this (e-mails will do).
That way you are able to prove/demonstrate the above.

Your intial recovery step will be a recorded delivery letter/e-mail (a form of letter/mail in which you can prove it was sent + received) in which you set out what was agreed, the terms, etc. and making a formal demand for the amount due within X days. If you end up placing the file in the hands of debt collectors, they will need this type of info and you will need to show you have made a formal final demand. Repeat the details required for the person to make the payment, set the time limit and if payment is not made, then take further steps, if it is actually worth it.

Edit: 30 days to pay in standard in Europe if nothing to the contrary is stated. In France, for example, it is not unusual for freelancers to be paid 60 days after the end of the month in whicih the work was supplied and invoiced (i.e. work done/invoiced in May, would be paid end July/begining of August... horribly long).


P.S. Search the forum with suitable key words. This is a sadly popular subject.

[Edited at 2017-07-24 16:13 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 20:38
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Just to clarify a little Jul 24

Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
One way or another, you will need to do the following:
- prove that the work was ordered
- prove that you supplied the work as ordered
- prove that the work you supplied was received by the client
- prove that the price to be paid was agreed upon

I think these can be considered proven by the fact that he said after the job was delivered that he was going to pay

- demonstrate what the time limit for payment was

Yes, hopefully that was on the invoice and/or stated elsewhere.

- demonstrate that what would happen if payment was late was made clear at the outset.

I've never heard of having to do that. It's implied in any contract (written or otherwise) that a client MUST pay, and that steps will be taken as appropriate to make them pay. I don't think you have to spell out those steps at any point.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:38
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
If this person is in North West of Italy please contact me via profile Jul 24

Loreta Saddi wrote:

I thought of hiring someone .............. they could get from him.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!


If he lives in North West perhaps I can help (for free of course), I am Italian and will be in Italy for the next 3 months (north west).

Good Luck!

[Edited at 2017-07-24 17:20 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Loreta Saddi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:38
Member
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you for your suggestions! Jul 24

Nikki and Sheila, you guys were very helpful!

@ Angie - I am not sure where he is located in Italy, I will check and let you know. Thank you anyway!


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:38
French to English
European late payment directive Jul 24

x

[Edited at 2017-07-24 23:16 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:38
French to English
European late payment directive Jul 24

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
One way or another, you will need to do the following:
- prove that the work was ordered
- prove that you supplied the work as ordered
- prove that the work you supplied was received by the client
- prove that the price to be paid was agreed upon

I think these can be considered proven by the fact that he said after the job was delivered that he was going to pay

- demonstrate what the time limit for payment was

Yes, hopefully that was on the invoice and/or stated elsewhere.

- demonstrate that what would happen if payment was late was made clear at the outset.

I've never heard of having to do that. It's implied in any contract (written or otherwise) that a client MUST pay, and that steps will be taken as appropriate to make them pay. I don't think you have to spell out those steps at any point.


Yes, of course the client has to pay. But if someone has not paid on time, after athe usual reminder steps, if payment is not forthcoming, you don't just want him to pay, but also to cover some of the cost (i.e. time and expense) of not having been paid on time and/or of chasing him for payment. Effective terms and conditions set out clearly the consequences of failing to pay on time. It is good business practice.

If you fail to set out what the consequences of late payment are, and they can be above the legal minima, it is much easier to apply those consequences. Further, certain things can only be claimed if you have said you will apply them, e.g. the EU 40€ flat rate penalty for recovery. This is an entitlement for late payment, upon the condition that you clearly stated that on your invoice.

In the EU, since 16 mars 2013, certain principles of the 2011/7/EU directive have been reinforced:
- application of the directive 2011/7/UE sets the default time limit for payment at 30 calendar days after receipt of the invoice in all member States, unless there is a contractual indication to the contrary, which cannot, in any event, be more than 60 days;
- penalty for late payment has been upgraded and are now set at a minimum of 8 points above the ECB refinancing rate;
- flat rate penalty for costs of recovery at 40€, etc.

http://ec.europa.eu/growth/smes/support/late-payment_fr

A basic rule to bear in mind is "he who asserts must prove." Even before things get sticky, and even if we all know a contract does not have to be evidenced in writing to exist, it is so much easier to be clear about what you are seeking to obtain from the other party is you can point to written traces. It can be very basic: can you do this translation by Monday 12h00./ Yes, I can. For USD 500. How's that?/ that's fine, I accept./ OK, here's my quote. Note the terms of payment and confirm that you agree and I'll get started. / OKay, done, fine. Go ahead.

If you've included the basic penalties for late payment, etc. at the bottom of your mail, you're clear. If not, you're stuck with the minimum rate of not even one percent (forget the 8 points more) and forget the 40€ for your trouble. If that does not work and you decide to seek the services of a debt collector or a lawyer, then their job will be much easier if you can produce clear indications of the what was understood between you and your client and he will also be able to push for penalties etc., and interests rate above the statutory rate if you have stated that they will apply. It can make a difference.

If all else fails, grab a coffee and watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U

[Edited at 2017-07-25 01:46 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)  Identity Verified
Thailand
Local time: 03:38
Member (2004)
English to Thai
+ ...
Do not forget the copyrights law Jul 25

Loreta Saddi wrote:

Hello everyone,

I did a job for someone in May (he is Italian and it was the first time I worked with him). After I delivered the job he said he was going to pay by PayPal and has been giving me excuses ever since.

Is there anything I can do to make him pay me? He doesn't have a profile here (just on Facebook and Linked In). I thought of hiring someone and giving them 50% of whatever amount they could get from him.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!


In many instances, I observed that translators rarely realized their copyrights. Until payment is complete, you can claim a criminal charge to non-payers who have had used your translation discretely.

Dr. Soonthon Lupkitaro
Bangkok, Thailand


Direct link Reply with quote
 


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Direct Client in Italy does not want to pay

Advanced search







LSP.expert
You’re a freelance translator? LSP.expert helps you manage your daily translation jobs. It’s easy, fast and secure.

How about you start tracking translation jobs and sending invoices in minutes? You can also manage your clients and generate reports about your business activities. So you always keep a clear view on your planning, AND you get a free 30 day trial period!

More info »
BaccS – Business Accounting Software
Modern desktop project management for freelance translators

BaccS makes it easy for translators to manage their projects, schedule tasks, create invoices, and view highly customizable reports. User-friendly, ProZ.com integration, community-driven development – a few reasons BaccS is trusted by translators!

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search