Pages in topic:   [1 2 3] >
Client changing amount on PO, what to do?
Thread poster: Thao Tran

Thao Tran
Vietnam
Local time: 15:13
Member (2017)
English to Vietnamese
+ ...
Jul 26

Hi everyone, I currently run into an issue with client regarding PO and would love to hear your opinion.

Originally I quoted X amount for an automotive project. I delivered the project and notified client the high difficulty level and couldn't collaborate on the next projects of similar topic with the current X amount. Client revised PO, changed to 2X amount.

Now they changed back to the original X amount for the 1st project on their system.

I'm currently assigned 5 more files with 2X amount. I still have to deliver 4 more files.

I told them I will ONLY deliver the remaining 4 files if they changed back to the revised 2X amount on the first project.

Do you think this is the right approach? I'm starting to not having respect and trust for this agency and thinking about asking advance payment for the remaining 4 files together with immediate payment for the first two files.

What would you do if you were me?

Thank y'all very much.


 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 08:13
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
This is one reason why I hate POs Jul 26

Thao Tran wrote:
Now they changed back to the original X amount for the 1st project on their system.

I told them I will ONLY deliver the remaining 4 files if they changed back to the revised 2X amount on the first project.

That seems eminently reasonable. Reverting back to an earlier agreement is a common problem. People have the first agreement in their records; they update the new PO (or whatever), but they don't go back and update the original agreement - and that's where they get the data from for the next PO! It happens all the time - new bank accounts, new addresses, etc., all suffer the same fate. I know I've done it myself as well as having had clients do it.

I'm starting to not having respect and trust for this agency and thinking about asking advance payment for the remaining 4 files together with immediate payment for the first two files.

If you're getting bad vibes from this particular client - like they're doing it deliberately - then I think that's a separate, though linked, issue. My personal advice would be to drop them. If you can't trust a client, why work with them? There are all sorts of ways they can make your life miserable if they want to. If you start demanding advance payment in full in a B2B relationship, you're going to get their backs up. That just isn't how B2B business is normally conducted and it's effectively telling them that you think they're lying b***s who are trying to do you out of your money, so it isn't going to help the relationship.


Tradupro17
Anthony Teixeira
 

Thao Tran
Vietnam
Local time: 15:13
Member (2017)
English to Vietnamese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Jul 26

Hi Sheila,

Thank you very much for your thought. So if I start to ask for advance payment, I should get ready to drop this project and this client because it's unlikely that they would do it?

One more thing Sheila, since you have a lot more of experiences, can I ask what if they hold me responsible for late project delivery because they haven't responded to my request changing the amount on PO?
I told them explicitly that the file is done and they need to respond to my request before I deliver the file.
I'm never late on my delivery so I'm a bit concerned...What if they are going to rate me 1 star on my Proz profile on late delivery?...

Regards,
Thao

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Thao Tran wrote:
Now they changed back to the original X amount for the 1st project on their system.

I told them I will ONLY deliver the remaining 4 files if they changed back to the revised 2X amount on the first project.

That seems eminently reasonable. Reverting back to an earlier agreement is a common problem. People have the first agreement in their records; they update the new PO (or whatever), but they don't go back and update the original agreement - and that's where they get the data from for the next PO! It happens all the time - new bank accounts, new addresses, etc., all suffer the same fate. I know I've done it myself as well as having had clients do it.

I'm starting to not having respect and trust for this agency and thinking about asking advance payment for the remaining 4 files together with immediate payment for the first two files.

If you're getting bad vibes from this particular client - like they're doing it deliberately - then I think that's a separate, though linked, issue. My personal advice would be to drop them. If you can't trust a client, why work with them? There are all sorts of ways they can make your life miserable if they want to. If you start demanding advance payment in full in a B2B relationship, you're going to get their backs up. That just isn't how B2B business is normally conducted and it's effectively telling them that you think they're lying b***s who are trying to do you out of your money, so it isn't going to help the relationship.


 

Marissa Aguayo Gavilano  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Member (2016)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Please explain Jul 26

Hi Thaoicon_smile.gif

Thao Tran wrote:

Originally I quoted X amount for an automotive project. I delivered the project and notified client the high difficulty level and couldn't collaborate on the next projects of similar topic with the current X amount. Client revised PO, changed to 2X amount.


You say you quoted X for the first project. My guess is knowing what it was about. You then delivered the project and told them that due to the high level of difficulty you couldn't collaborate on the NEXT projects of similar topics with the same rate. The way I read it, you are accepting X for the first project and are requesting a higher rate (2X) for the following projects. I don't think you could increase your rate for the first project after delivery. This should have been agreed before you even started translating. If I'm misunderstanding anything, let me know.

It seems that they are keeping their word and paying you 2X for the following projects from what you've said.


Pedro Zimmer
Tina Vonhof
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
 

Thao Tran
Vietnam
Local time: 15:13
Member (2017)
English to Vietnamese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
First PO was revised to 2X now back to X amount Jul 26

Hi Marissa,

Thank you very much for taking the time to share your opinion.

The agency and I agreed on X amount on the 1st project. After I delivered and notified high difficulty level, they revised PO of the first project to 2X amount (together with next 5 projects of similar topic) and told me explicitly via email that they had changed to 2X amount (again on the FIRST project) before we discussed subsequent project. Now they changed back to original X amount on the FIRST project without notifying me.

Regards,
Thao

Marissa Aguayo Gavilano wrote:

Hi Thaoicon_smile.gif

Thao Tran wrote:

Originally I quoted X amount for an automotive project. I delivered the project and notified client the high difficulty level and couldn't collaborate on the next projects of similar topic with the current X amount. Client revised PO, changed to 2X amount.


You say you quoted X for the first project. My guess is knowing what it was about. You then delivered the project and told them that due to the high level of difficulty you couldn't collaborate on the NEXT projects of similar topics with the same rate. The way I read it, you are accepting X for the first project and are requesting a higher rate (2X) for the following projects. I don't think you could increase your rate for the first project after delivery. This should have been agreed before you even started translating. If I'm misunderstanding anything, let me know.

It seems that they are keeping their word and paying you 2X for the following projects from what you've said.


 

Marissa Aguayo Gavilano  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Member (2016)
English to Spanish
+ ...
In that case... Jul 26

If they had explicitly told you that they were increasing the rate for the first PO as well, then you should ask them to pay for the first project in full (at the 2X rate) before you send them the following projects. Let them know that they are all ready as you say and that you don't want to miss the deadline (you could even send a watermarked screenshot so there's proof that you've worked on the files), but that you need to be paid what was agreed for the first project.

How did you notice they had modified the first PO? When? When did you message them about it?


 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 08:13
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
I'd misunderstood Jul 26

Thao Tran wrote:
So if I start to ask for advance payment, I should get ready to drop this project and this client because it's unlikely that they would do it?

It's what I would expect to happen, Thao - but that doesn't mean it definitely will in this particular case, of course.

But I see now from the exchange with Marissa that I'd misunderstood your situation. I thought you'd accepted that you were going to earn very little on the first file, but that you were going to get paid more for subsequent ones. And that they were now not wanting to pay that extra.

So, you say that the #1 PO is coming up too low again? Okay, that's one problem to be sorted out. But what about the PO for the work you're currently doing? Is that showing the amount you expect? If so, I suggest you deliver the work. You're not really risking any more - you've already used the time. Once you've done everything you're contractually obliged to do, i.e. delivered all the outstanding work, then you can start dealing with making them pay what they said they'd pay. If you have the email exchanges then they can't really defend paying you less. If you don't deliver on time then things could get problematic as you'd be at fault too.


 

Georgie Scott  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 09:13
Member (2009)
French to English
+ ...
Admin errors Jul 26

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

It's easy to assume they are mucking around on purpose - and they may well be - but before issuing ultimatums, I would approach the issue in a way that implies you believe it to be an administrative error.

I wouldn't leave it open to discussion, just politely point out that there is a mistake in their PO and remind them of all the terms they have agreed to, ie. send them a summary of the different projects and their associated fees.

Given that they agreed to update the fee for a project that had already been completed, they may be well-intentioned but simply poorly organized...


Vladimir Filipenko
Rachel Waddington
Germaine
Thao Tran
 

Thao Tran
Vietnam
Local time: 15:13
Member (2017)
English to Vietnamese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Client wiped out all POs and canceled the project Jul 26

Hi Sheila,

Thank you for helping me again.

Client just wiped out all POs, i.e. when I went on their website, everything disappeared, I can't submit POs (but I do have email of their accounting team), and canceled the project with me.

I already sent them all work I 've done.

What would you do next if you were me? I mean I already thought of Blue Board, but when I should submit the review and what else I can do...?

Regards,
Thao


 

Thayenga  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:13
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Original PO Jul 26

Thao Tran wrote:

Client just wiped out all POs, i.e. when I went on their website, everything disappeared, I can't submit POs (but I do have email of their accounting team), and canceled the project with me.

I already sent them all work I 've done.

What would you do next if you were me? I mean I already thought of Blue Board, but when I should submit the review and what else I can do...?

Regards,
Thao


Hi Thao,

at first I thought that maybe someone there made a mistake, these things happen. Regardless of what may or might not have happened, you still have your original PO and can prove that you have submitted the first project. This means that the customer owes you payment for the work you have done.

Send them an email with your invoice and politely request payment for your work. You didn't mention anything about the customer having been dissatisfied with your work. So no complains, job accepted.

In which country is your (ex-?) customer? See if you can call them or send them a registered letter, if they don't reply to your email.

You have a binding contract, so they must pay you.

All the best,

Thayenga


 

Thao Tran
Vietnam
Local time: 15:13
Member (2017)
English to Vietnamese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Too deep into matter to be simply administrative errors Jul 26

Hi Georgie,

Great quote!

PM and Vendor Coordinator just told me explicitly about the rate upgrade (2X) via email and I went to their site to check, it was correct (as of yesterday, July 25). I didn't receive the revised PO (I should have asked but I worked with this agency before on smaller projects so I had some trust for them).

When I spotted the change, I notified PM immediately and asked PM to change it back to the upgraded rate. He told me I had agreed to original PO so the first file Is now back to X rate, no longer 2X rate.

I told me PM I can't deliver any more files if he just changed the PO amount behind my back, without notifying me.

He then cancelled the project with me, blaming me agreeing to original PO (X amount for 1st file) and now I want 2X.

But Georgie, I agree with your suggestion on the administrative error approach. In my first email notifying the PM, i should have simply asked him to change it back to 2X, and that it could probably be an administrative error.

Regards,
Thao

Georgie Scott wrote:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

It's easy to assume they are mucking around on purpose - and they may well be - but before issuing ultimatums, I would approach the issue in a way that implies you believe it to be an administrative error.

I wouldn't leave it open to discussion, just politely point out that there is a mistake in their PO and remind them of all the terms they have agreed to, ie. send them a summary of the different projects and their associated fees.

Given that they agreed to update the fee for a project that had already been completed, they may be well-intentioned but simply poorly organized...


 

Thao Tran
Vietnam
Local time: 15:13
Member (2017)
English to Vietnamese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
UK-based client Jul 26

Hi Thayenga,

Thank you for sharing your thought.

The agency is UK-based with 4.8 star on Proz. I worked with them on smaller projects before, everything was great until this big project (big to me, 12,000 words in total if they didn't cancel the project with me).

I'm reading about registered letter now.

How do you deal with unpaid or under pay clients generally and European-based clients specifically?

Regards,
Thao

Thayenga wrote:

Thao Tran wrote:

Client just wiped out all POs, i.e. when I went on their website, everything disappeared, I can't submit POs (but I do have email of their accounting team), and canceled the project with me.

I already sent them all work I 've done.

What would you do next if you were me? I mean I already thought of Blue Board, but when I should submit the review and what else I can do...?

Regards,
Thao


Hi Thao,

at first I thought that maybe someone there made a mistake, these things happen. Regardless of what may or might not have happened, you still have your original PO and can prove that you have submitted the first project. This means that the customer owes you payment for the work you have done.

Send them an email with your invoice and politely request payment for your work. You didn't mention anything about the customer having been dissatisfied with your work. So no complains, job accepted.

In which country is your (ex-?) customer? See if you can call them or send them a registered letter, if they don't reply to your email.

You have a binding contract, so they must pay you.

All the best,

Thayenga


 

Thayenga  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:13
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Small Claims Court Jul 26

If nothing else works, Thao, then please read this thread https://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/402-how_do_you_start_threatening_a_non_paying_agency_person.html#1735

It deals especially with issues with non-cooperative clients in the UK.

If nothing else works, then you can file a claim with the Small Claims Court, since the UK is still (more or less) part of the European Union.

Good luck.

Thayenga


 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 08:13
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Oh dear Jul 26

Thao Tran wrote:
Client just wiped out all POs, i.e. when I went on their website, everything disappeared, I can't submit POs (but I do have email of their accounting team), and canceled the project with me.

I already sent them all work I 've done.

What would you do next if you were me? I mean I already thought of Blue Board, but when I should submit the review and what else I can do...?

Oh dear, it does seem as though they want to get nasty icon_frown.gif . Keep every scrap of evidence you can - print out emails (just in case), take screenshots, compile a chronological list of events, especially if there have been any phone calls. And follow Thayenga's advice:

Thayenga wrote:
Send them an email with your invoice and politely request payment for your work. You didn't mention anything about the customer having been dissatisfied with your work. So no complains, job accepted.

Don't worry about not having a correct PO, or indeed any PO. You have a legal right to invoice for your work. I'd send it by ordinary email at the moment, if payment isn't overdue, with just a short covering note. I personally don't believe that antagonising clients unduly is helpful. Time enough for the registered letter with the final demand (you can find examples online) once the payment is overdue.

I'm not sure the Blue Board is the best thing to do at this stage. Sometimes it's a common civility to other translators, to avoid them being caught in a trap. But I suspect this is a one-off snarl-up and it might serve you best to allow them some time to find a solution without bad publicity. Once the payment is overdue, then of course you should give them a poor rating.

I don't think there's really anything else you can do until the payment is overdue, apart from replying in a polite but firm way to any communications from them. But you should be thinking about what you would accept as a solution. You have a right to the full amount, don't forget that, but perhaps you'd only get that after a court hearing. Maybe you'd be willing to accept a negotiated settlement, if they offer? That's something for you to decide.


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:13
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Canceled after delivery? Jul 26

Could you clarify this: so you delivered all the files for the entire project, and they "canceled" the project AFTER that?
What do you mean by "canceled"? Did it just disappear from their online project platform, or did they actually send you a project cancellation notice of some kind?


 
Pages in topic:   [1 2 3] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Client changing amount on PO, what to do?

Advanced search







CafeTran Espresso
You've never met a CAT tool this clever!

Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer. Accept jobs from clients who use SDL Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools. Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free

More info »
memoQ translator pro
Kilgray's memoQ is the world's fastest developing integrated localization & translation environment rendering you more productive and efficient.

With our advanced file filters, unlimited language and advanced file support, memoQ translator pro has been designed for translators and reviewers who work on their own, with other translators or in team-based translation projects.

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search