| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Please tell me why you work for .04 a word... Thread poster: Jeff Whittaker
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cendrine marrouat (X)
English to French
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| Totally right but... | Jul 7, 2005 |
François Rossi wrote:
Personally, I think it all depends as to where the translation agency is based.
If you receive a request from a translation agency based in China, India... then it's normal to get a rate offer of around USD0.05. You're free to accept or not and I choose not to.
What really annoys me is when such an offer comes from an agency based in a rich country like the UK, US, France, Germany... I don't even waste time replying.
I don't know about the US, but when I have paid all my expenses and taxes, there would not be much left if I were to work for silly prices like that. In fact, it'd be easier to work behind the bar somewhere.
The best thing we can do is ignore such requests and let these agencies go down for lack of resources.
You are totally right, but the problem is that a lot of translators accept the low rates so the trend won't change, I'm afraid. That is the big issue, and things are getting worse and worse. The worst I have seen so far is a company wanting 10 years of experience, a master's degree and CAT tools, but only willing to pay 0.06 USD a word. Isn't it outrageous?
| | | | | say no and work for known agencies | Jul 7, 2005 |
the problem is that a lot of translators accept the low rates so the trend won't change
I disagree.
I don't know of any "good" translator who accepts to work at this rate. Most of the time it seems the replies emanate from newbies or people without work.
To which I say, you're better off registering with known translation agencies as their rates will be better than those offered by those racketeers.
| | | | cendrine marrouat (X)
English to French
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| I disagree with you too | Jul 7, 2005 |
François Rossi wrote: the problem is that a lot of translators accept the low rates so the trend won't change I disagree. I don't know of any "good" translator who accepts to work at this rate. Most of the time it seems the replies emanate from newbies or people without work. To which I say, you're better off registering with known translation agencies as their rates will be better than those offered by those racketeers.
It has nothing to do with lack of work or newbies. I know some translators who accept those rates, and they have been in the industry for many years...
| | | | | It's a personal choice | Jul 7, 2005 |
NancyLynn wrote:
Fun, desperation, experience, etc... these are valids reasons for working for 0,10 USD per word.
Nancy
I agree it's better to get experience and have fun at my usual rates, but if I'm looking at a budget deficit of a couple hundred dollars and the opportunity to quickly make that much money drifts in front of me ... I would snap at it. It's better than taking the TV to the pawn shop.
After losing several contracts because I didn't have enough experience with "large electronic equipment", I took a short-term assignment at low rates on a very large project with enormous equipment. End of problem - "large electronic equipment" is now on my CV - and it has led to assignments at premium rates because the clients wanted someone with that experience.
As for the fun ones ... I'm not 100% motivated by money, so if I can take an interesting contract without serious deprivation, I will. Non-profits, for one, do not usually pay well but can have interesting work.
cendrine marrouat wrote:
it's just that your actual desperation (and it was my case, like most of us here) gives the impression potential clients that they can get away with it without thinking of the consequences.
They can and do get away with it ... until the market shifts and the talent pool dries up, as it always does. Or until they drive the marginal players into flipping burgers for a living. Then their postings hang on the jobs forums for weeks while the reasonable clients have no problems attracting competent talent.
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Jeff Whittaker 
United States
Local time: 06:44
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Get another job or more education | Jul 7, 2005 |
Tsu Dho Nimh wrote:
I agree it's better to get experience and have fun at my usual rates, but if I'm looking at a budget deficit of a couple hundred dollars and the opportunity to quickly make that much money drifts in front of me ... I would snap at it. It's better than taking the TV to the pawn shop.
After losing several contracts because I didn't have enough experience with "large electronic equipment", I took a short-term assignment at low rates on a very large project with enormous equipment. End of problem - "large electronic equipment" is now on my CV - and it has led to assignments at premium rates because the clients wanted someone with that experience.
If you are in such desperate need of money – McDonald’s and Burger King are always hiring (unless of course you are in this country illegally). Many potentially excellent new translators are having problems getting jobs due to their lack of experience, lack of marketing skills, etc. In time, they will prevail and grow into true professionals. However, there are also many people who are unsuccessful simply because this profession is just not for them and they should try something else either because their source-language target skills or target-language writing skills are too weak and they need more education or because they are not suited for freelance work.
I have several friends who just do not have the ability to sit for long periods of time and concentrate on writing something. Even if they had the prerequisite language skills, they would still be unable to complete an assignment properly and on time. They lack the necessary Sitzfleisch.
Others simply do not have any interest whatsoever in languages and the intricacies and subtleties involved in human expression or the fascinating “science” of translation and are only interested in $.
Not everyone who wants to be an attorney or who wants to be a famous actor or actress, or singer (i.e. American Idol) is qualified to do so. The same is true with translation. It is very easy to jump in and start translating, but at some point, you need to face the truth and decide whether or not this profession is for you.
Unless of course, you are just “dabbling” in translation on the side in order to avoid pawning off your worldly possessions. In this case you have absolutely no moral right to speak about this profession of which you are obviously not a part.
Translating a small document about electronic equipment in no way makes you an expert in the field, no more than translating a magazine article on heart surgery would make me an expert in cardiology. If you choose to pad your resume in this manner, you will of course receive assignments that you are unqualified to translate. How does this help you in your career? Of course, it does not. Unless you are only out to make a quick buck. In that case, I suggest that you refrain from spreading your nonsense here and start searching for a career for which you are better suited.
Many people have worked many long years to get where they are today and your comments are not only unwelcome, but extremely insulting to those of us who truly care about what we do.
Another example: http://www.proz.com/topic/34360
[Edited at 2005-07-07 19:13]
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 06:44
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Just got it.
Tsu Dho Nimh = pseudonym
Very funny.
| | | | cendrine marrouat (X)
English to French
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Tsu Dho Nimh wrote:
As for the fun ones ... I'm not 100% motivated by money, so if I can take an interesting contract without serious deprivation, I will. Non-profits, for one, do not usually pay well but can have interesting work.
My dear, I have been a volunteer translator for as long as I can remember. I know what it is to work for free. The problem is beyond that.
Being motivated by money and earning the money you deserve are totally different things. When you are driven by money, you ask outrageous rates. When you work for a living, you ask rates that depend on what you think you are worth, considering your degrees and your experience. Are you telling me that I am motivated by money because I complain about low rates that don't allow me to pay for utilities, rents and other things (restaurant or cinema once in a while)? Well, Houston we have a problem!
If anyone outside the translator community were to read your message, they would think that translators are jokes that don't deserve any respect...
| | | | Can Altinbay
Local time: 06:44
Japanese to English
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In memoriam | Official poverty level is not a living wage | Jul 8, 2005 |
Edward Potter wrote: 3000 words per day X 5 days = 15,000 words per week. 15,000 words per week X $.03 = $450.00 per week $450.00 per week X 52 weeks = $23,400 per year. This puts you well over the official poverty level, which last time I looked was about $16,000 for a family of 4. So the answer is yes. If you have that volume coming in then you can indeed make a living at that rate in the United States. Okay, everyone, start telling me about the other factors involved  .
So the government proclaims that you are no longer poor at some wage level. this does not mean that someone can actually live on these wages. These rates are set by the same people who raise their own salaries stating that their pay, which is several times the poverty threshold, is not enough for one to live on.
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Can Altinbay
Local time: 06:44
Japanese to English
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In memoriam
Edward Potter wrote:
So, $750 per month X 12 = $9000 per year. Your transpo will be a close-to-free bicycle and you will not wear high fashion. I have not factored in health insurance. You'd have to search for a cheap comprehensive policy. I won't speculate on how much that would be right now.
Good luck finding any such thing in the US. You can buy individual health insurance for lots of money. Many people are going without health insurance because they cannot afford it - and many of these people have actual fulltime jobs.
Life may not be really easy at this economic level, but there are people out there who have learned to be happy if they have their basic needs met. Conversely, there are many unhappy people who "have it all". It is a question of attitude and lifestyle.
But they don't have their basic needs met.
| | | | Alexander Misailov (X)
Russian to English
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Hi, everyone,
I have been reading this insanity for awhile I researched the problem of low rates on my own and the bottom line is and always will be - with the word-wide implementation of the Internet and electronic delivery - JOBS ARE GOING OVERSEAS TO POOR COUNTRIES. Period. The translation business is no different than customer service. That's why when you call customer support at Dell, Delta, Microsoft, etc. - ... See more Hi, everyone,
I have been reading this insanity for awhile I researched the problem of low rates on my own and the bottom line is and always will be - with the word-wide implementation of the Internet and electronic delivery - JOBS ARE GOING OVERSEAS TO POOR COUNTRIES. Period. The translation business is no different than customer service. That's why when you call customer support at Dell, Delta, Microsoft, etc. - you get an person from India or another country, where $200 a month is a good wage. That's it. That's your answer to low rates.
In my experience a lot of agencies hire a low rate translator overseas for a project, then, realizing that they may not be as good, hire a U.S. editor to look over and fix the work. It still ends being cheaper than paying $0.10-0.12 to a U.S. based translator.
Future is not very bright, my friends. Customer service goes to India, production to China and translations to the respective countries of the source/target language.
Also, think about this: what respected agency would gamble with ProZ, if they really wanted quality? Who would have the audacity to ask for experience, quick turnaround, large volume, quality and education and pay the bare minimum? I found that most postings here are here only because they don't want to pay a competitive rate and are fishing for cheap labor.
And one last thought: it's appauling to me that people here are even discussing working for those rates, because a maid or waiter would work for same. That's why we are not maids or waiters - we are proffessionals (well, most of us), who are educated, trained and experienced in a proffessional field. You don't ask a rocket scientist to work for $10.00 an hour, because a maid will do it. This logic is absurd.
In all my time here I only got one possible bite from a Proz posting - only to refuse it later for the rediciluos rate. Those companies got it made - pay low, no benefits, no pay for expenses, no vacation, no sick time, no holidays, no overtime and all the profit. Last year alone I paid 35% of my yearly salary in taxes - who figures that in?
Sorry, like I said: The future is not bright. More and more jobs will go across the ocean, including yours and mine...
Thanks for reading ▲ Collapse
| | | | | What can we do about this situation? | Jul 13, 2005 |
Alexander Misailov wrote:
...with the word-wide implementation of the Internet and electronic delivery - JOBS ARE GOING OVERSEAS TO POOR COUNTRIES. Period...
In my experience a lot of agencies hire a low rate translator overseas for a project, then, realizing that they may not be as good, hire a U.S. editor to look over and fix the work. It still ends being cheaper than paying $0.10-0.12 to a U.S. based translator.
I agree with you. What can we (in rich countries) do about this situation?
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Alexander Misailov (X)
Russian to English
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| Not sure what to do... | Jul 13, 2005 |
I am not sure what to do, Arthur. We can't stop the free enterprise - employers will always look for a better deal. There are, of course, a few that do need a very accurate translation and they know to hire a more expensive, educated and experienced translator. But for the most part I don't like what the future holds. Personally, I am starting to look elsewhere for the mojority of the income, keeping the translation on the side, because I thinkg it will not be able to bring income consistent... See more I am not sure what to do, Arthur. We can't stop the free enterprise - employers will always look for a better deal. There are, of course, a few that do need a very accurate translation and they know to hire a more expensive, educated and experienced translator. But for the most part I don't like what the future holds. Personally, I am starting to look elsewhere for the mojority of the income, keeping the translation on the side, because I thinkg it will not be able to bring income consistently.
I don't know about Germany, but in the U.S. there is a lot of talk about jobs going overseas. A lot of people are displeased that they are being replaced and a lot of customers are unhappy about calling Dell computers and getting a "Rashid" from India. The goverment might do something about it, but then again - free enterprise. And translation companies will always be able to justify their outsourcing - "we need somebody in the native country"...
Therefore, unless we are able to stick together, not accept low rates and produce quality in order to convince agencies not to look for the lowest bidder - we are going to be displaced
And the paradox is - as great as Proz.com is - it's the very thing that enable agencies to solicit cheap translators. Why don't you think they want bids? Otherwise they'd just look at resume and hire the most qulified, not the lowest bidder...
Good luck!!!
Any other ideas? ▲ Collapse
| | | | msend (X)
French to English
| Prospering without working for agencies | Jul 18, 2005 |
I've read this thread with interest and would like to throw in my .04.
Regarding the original point: .03 and .04 could potentially provide a living wage, but that's not the point: this is a pathetically low wage ($9-11/hour, roughly) for a trained professional in any field. Yet such rates seem common from agencies; I monitor the jobs being posted but have never, in three years, worked for an agency through Proz or otherwise.
So how do I prosper without dealing with age... See more I've read this thread with interest and would like to throw in my .04.
Regarding the original point: .03 and .04 could potentially provide a living wage, but that's not the point: this is a pathetically low wage ($9-11/hour, roughly) for a trained professional in any field. Yet such rates seem common from agencies; I monitor the jobs being posted but have never, in three years, worked for an agency through Proz or otherwise.
So how do I prosper without dealing with agencies?
1. I charge rates that hit a "sweet spot": considerably higher than what agencies pay, considerably lower than what they charge. If I went lower, my clients or potential clients might begin to question my professionalism or sense desperation; higher and they might start to shop around. (In my location, that means I charge anywhere from Cdn $.18 to .24 depending on the job and client.)
2. I almost never work outside of regular business hours. I'm running a business and it's open from 9:00 to 5:00, just like most of my clients' companies. If you want to lowball me on rates and expect me to give you my evenings and weekends...the Yellow Pages are right there. If you're a long-term client, I may make an exception for you, but you will pay a rush rate. However, I was only able to set this rule after becoming established: I did a good deal more evening and weekend work when starting out. The key thing is not to let yourself be pigeonholed as an "open 24/7" shop.
3. I'm fluently bilingual, but I translate only into my dominant language, which is the language in which I can most comfortably and efficiently write at a professional level -- not the one for which there's more demand.
4. I take quality assurance very seriously. If the document is destined for wide-distribution print, I charge a higher rate and use the margin to hire a colleague to revise my work. Otherwise, I try to negotiate sufficient lead time to allow me to revise the copy myself after letting it "rest" for a day or so. I do not hesitate to ask my client questions if I'm having difficulties.
5. When translating, I please my client by striving to please the eventual reader, not the client. Most clients never hear me say that, and probably never guess. But that is my general approach to producing a good translation, and the clients keep coming back.
6. For the most part, I serve local clients. I realize this is something of an anomaly (and possibly a luxury) in today's world, but I think it's a great idea to do this whenever possible. Payment is simplified, meeting clients is possible, networking becomes easier.
7. I stay sharp. Being talented but untrained, I obtained some training: I'm far more efficient and accurate than I could ever have been as a self-taught translator. I work to hone my writing skills constantly, and I speak both my source and target languages daily. I never assume there's nothing left to learn about either language in my pair.
8. If I'm really swamped and I have to hire someone to do some translation, I rigorously check their work and inform my client that I'm not working alone. When I do hire someone else, I draw from a small community of people known to me. In such cases, my cut is about 10-15%.
And where do these loyal local clients come from?
Word of mouth: about 80% of my business has snowballed from a single client. If you're starting out and looking for that first client, work any connections you might have (from school, for example) or try to identify a client whose needs dovetail with your skills. Working at somewhat reduced rates when you're starting out can also help, but it's important to view this as a temporary measure and not fall into the trap of becoming "the cheap translator."
See? It's easy! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
Local time: 06:44
msend wrote:
I've read this thread with interest and would like to throw in my .04.
Regarding the original point: .03 and .04 could potentially provide a living wage, but that's not the point: this is a pathetically low wage ($9-11/hour, roughly) for a trained professional in any field. Yet such rates seem common from agencies; I monitor the jobs being posted but have never, in three years, worked for an agency through Proz or otherwise.
So how do I prosper without dealing with agencies?
See? It's easy![/quote]
Hi msend,
You really make it sound simple and easy, and you are right on track!
However, I must point something out: I translate both for Canadian and US clients, and the Canadian ones seem to have a better understanding of, and much more respect for the translation profession (and thus are more inclined to pay reasonable rates). I assume this is probably due to the fact that they are more acustomed to routinarily dealing with two official languages.
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