| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Please tell me why you work for .04 a word... Thread poster: Jeff Whittaker
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msend (X)
French to English
| Cheap clients exist everywhere | Jul 20, 2005 |
Rosa Maria Duenas Rios wrote:
Hi msend,
You really make it sound simple and easy, and you are right on track!
However, I must point something out: I translate both for Canadian and US clients, and the Canadian ones seem to have a better understanding of, and much more respect for the translation profession (and thus are more inclined to pay reasonable rates). I assume this is probably due to the fact that they are more acustomed to routinarily dealing with two official languages.
Hi Rosa Maria,
I realize that I'm fortunate to be located in a place where most clients understand the value of a good, professional translation and are happy to pay accordingly.
But even here, many business owners are interested first and foremost in paying a low price. In my experience, that kind of price-sensitivity usually comes with an attitude: they view translation (or writing, or computer programming, or plumbing, or even architecture) not as a skilled profession, but as simple grunt-work beneath their lofty status.
Because of my rates, I don't need to deal with such people anymore, though I certainly have encountered a number of them over the years. I firmly believe that no matter where you are, if you allow yourself to fall into a low-rate rut, you'll encounter a great many clients of this kind.
So, even though I am blessed to be in a place with an unusually high number of communication professionals who respect our profession, I still need to take care to avoid certain pitfalls, and I'd be surprised if those pitfalls weren't essentially universal: no matter where you go or what you do, if you sell yourself short, you'll be treated accordingly. If .04 is a good rate in Country A, then translators there would be well-advised to insist on that rate instead of accepting .01. (So, I have to ask: could it be that part of what you're observing is that the market in the U.S. will actually bear rates somewhat lower than Canadian clients will pay?)
[Edited at 2005-07-20 13:17]
| | | | Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X) 
Local time: 02:41
| I hope people are still reading this thread! | Jul 21, 2005 |
msend wrote:
So, even though I am blessed to be in a place with an unusually high number of communication professionals who respect our profession, I still need to take care to avoid certain pitfalls, and I'd be surprised if those pitfalls weren't essentially universal: no matter where you go or what you do, if you sell yourself short, you'll be treated accordingly. If .04 is a good rate in Country A, then translators there would be well-advised to insist on that rate instead of accepting .01. (So, I have to ask: could it be that part of what you're observing is that the market in the U.S. will actually bear rates somewhat lower than Canadian clients will pay?)
Again, I could not agree more with what you wrote, msend.
As for your question, someone in another post wrote that the rates in the US vary between 10 and 25 cents US per word; however, I would have said that I have seen clients offer rates as low as 4 cents US, so the range is huge and, in my opinion, unacceptable.
In Canada, the rate range I have seen is between 18 and 35 CAN cents per word. No one has yet offered me work for less than 18 cents, even though I am sure there must be some lower offers out there but, as you wisely state, it is up to us to avoid the pitfall of selling ourselves short.
I believe in talking about rates, so that translators everywhere can know an understand this important issue.
| | | | cendrine marrouat (X)
English to French
+ ...
| Canada is no different from other countries | Jul 21, 2005 |
Rosa Maria Duenas Rios wrote:
Again, I could not agree more with what you wrote, msend.
As for your question, someone in another post wrote that the rates in the US vary between 10 and 25 cents US per word; however, I would have said that I have seen clients offer rates as low as 4 cents US, so the range is huge and, in my opinion, unacceptable.
In Canada, the rate range I have seen is between 18 and 35 CAN cents per word. No one has yet offered me work for less than 18 cents, even though I am sure there must be some lower offers out there but, as you wisely state, it is up to us to avoid the pitfall of selling ourselves short.
I believe in talking about rates, so that translators everywhere can know an understand this important issue.
Thanks to both of you for this interesting feedback. I have to disagree with you as far as Canada is concerned. Some companies offer less than 10 Cnd cents a word, and sometimes even less than that.
You are right, we must keep on talking about rates, that's vital for our industry. We are valuable "assets" because without us, communication would be very limited indeed. Clients tend to forget that sometimes...
| | | | Silvina Jover-Cirillo (X)
United States
Local time: 02:41
English to Spanish
+ ...
| If you think U$D 0.04 is cheap, try U$D 0.01 per word! | Aug 10, 2005 |
Hi everybody!!!!
I really like all the opinions I've read here.
I'm not going to tell you what I think about 0.4 but I will tell you what happened to me today.
After 1 entire month of dealing with the selection process for the translation of a book (and more to come), I was informed that, even though my work is of an excellent quality, somebody else was offering more competitive prices.
U$D 0.01 PER WORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... See more Hi everybody!!!!
I really like all the opinions I've read here.
I'm not going to tell you what I think about 0.4 but I will tell you what happened to me today.
After 1 entire month of dealing with the selection process for the translation of a book (and more to come), I was informed that, even though my work is of an excellent quality, somebody else was offering more competitive prices.
U$D 0.01 PER WORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have NO IDEA where is this person from or his/her background, education, etc.
I know my lates are low, but the competition for the Spanish market is huge, but......c'mon.........U$D 0.01!
OUT OF THIS WORLD!
So, as you can see, it seems U$D 0.04 is not as low as we thought!
Nice topic! Good comments! I LIKE IT! ▲ Collapse
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Impossible to compete with this kind of "unlawful competition"...however, I think the outcome will stand for itself...
| | | | | An unfair bargaining method? | Aug 12, 2005 |
Silvina Jover wrote:
After 1 entire month of dealing with the selection process for the translation of a book mebody else was offering more competitive prices.[/quote]
They are possibly making you invest a lot of unpaid time beforehand on purpose so that you would be lothe to write it all off and be increasingly willing to compromise.
You will need to decide on a firm line you won't cross, where you will definitely back out and cut your losses.
And I wouldn't take their word for it either that the competing translator actually exists and that there is nothing wrong with his/her quote. If they had such a good competing offer without any snags, then why bother with your application at all?
P.
[Edited at 2005-08-12 12:54]
| | | | | An agency's point of veiw | Aug 15, 2005 |
It was very interesting to read this thread. I would like to add our view of the matter, as an agency.
The price for translation in Scandinavia is generally high (1,20-2,00 EUR per word). Naturally, these are some of the most expensive countries to live in as well. However, a skilled translator would have no problems translating 6000 words a day - I know this since I was a translator myself. With tax deductions that would mean an income of about 400EUR for a full day's work, at lea... See more It was very interesting to read this thread. I would like to add our view of the matter, as an agency.
The price for translation in Scandinavia is generally high (1,20-2,00 EUR per word). Naturally, these are some of the most expensive countries to live in as well. However, a skilled translator would have no problems translating 6000 words a day - I know this since I was a translator myself. With tax deductions that would mean an income of about 400EUR for a full day's work, at least.
That is an income level most people could only dream about. A few days' work would earn you more than my father ever did in any single month of his life. So what the heck are you whining about? If you don't like the pay, just get another job!
On to the next point: Low-cost countries. As I pointed out before in other forums, we are able to get half the price for translations in other countries. So can somebody please explain why we should accept rates of 2EUR when we can get the same quality of work for 0,07EUR? Or even 0,07USD? I would say that even in the U.S. that would mean an income considerably higher than average. In Asia or South America it means an earning way above what most people will ever achieve.
Finally, I think we all need to realize that we do live in a global community now, not the least thanks to Proz.com. Prices will drop, wheather you like it or not. And again: Please give me a reason to pay a person in Europe twice the money instead of supporting someone in a developing country and make their life a little better. So stop whining, lower your rates, and show some solidarity with poorer countries. Or does your solidarity stop the minute it affects your own income? ▲ Collapse
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| Don't go any lower! | Aug 15, 2005 |
Dear Silvina,
As a representative of an agency, I can assure you that they are lying. We never received a quote for $0.01 per word, and even if we did we would never consider it. There is never any reason to go lower than $0.05 per word, regardless of the language combination. Instead, work on your profile and point out your expertise for the proposed job.
Good luck!
[quote]Silvina Jover wrote:
I was informed that, even though my work is of an excellent quality, somebody else was offering more competitive prices.
U$D 0.01 PER WORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know my lates are low, but the competition for the Spanish market is huge, but......c'mon.........U$D 0.01!
| | | | Ralf Lemster
Germany
Local time: 08:41
English to German
+ ...
| Check your figures? | Aug 15, 2005 |
Hi Johannes,
I guess you may want to double-check some of the figures you indicated.
The price for translation in Scandinavia is generally high (1,20-2,00 EUR per word).
Is that a per-line rate?
That is an income level most people could only dream about. A few days' work would earn you more than my father ever did in any single month of his life.
Your calculation misses out a few major items (which, admittedly, many freelancers also miss out in their calculations):
- the higher risk involved, compared to a job paying a fixed salary - this requires a higher return;
- additional costs incurred by an entrepreneur, which an employee would not incur, or which would (partially) be paid by the employer, such as social security;
- depreciation/amortisation charges for software, hardware, and other investments.
In other words, an after-tax income of EUR 400 might sound a lot, but unless you're certain that (i) there's enough work to keep you going at that rate for at least 15 days a month; and (ii) you can ensure that you can keep up that speed without compromising on quality, it isn't.
So can somebody please explain why we should accept rates of 2EUR when we can get the same quality of work for 0,07EUR? Or even 0,07USD?
Of course not. But why would a translator who can specialise and do some marketing work for you, for seven cents, if they can get (at least) twice as much elsewhere?
Finally, I think we all need to realize that we do live in a global community now, not the least thanks to Proz.com.
ProZ.com reflects the market - as any attempt to isolate it would be unrealistic anyway, but it isn't in itself driving globalisation.
Prices will drop, wheather you like it or not.
Why should they?
What we need to recognise is that there's no such thing as a single, uniform market for translations: there are segments paying 6 cents, and there are segments paying 30 or more.
And again: Please give me a reason to pay a person in Europe twice the money instead of supporting someone in a developing country and make their life a little better. So stop whining, lower your rates, and show some solidarity with poorer countries. Or does your solidarity stop the minute it affects your own income?
Sorry, but I fail to see why solidarity would be relevant here - market participants pursue their own interests. And as much as our colleagues in countries with lower cost of living can leverage this to be extra competitive, the more experienced among them also realise that they can boost their net income by raising their charges.
Being an outsourcer myself, I couldn't care less about the cost of living of freelancers in my team, provided that they deliver the quality I need.
Best regards,
Ralf
| | | | | 6000 words in a day??? With or without quality?? | Aug 15, 2005 |
Dear PointBlack,
I have been working as a full-time translator for 8 years...but Ì have never managed to translate 6,000 (six thousands) words in a day. It is surely not realistic in my language combination (German/English into Italian).
My customers prefer quality! And so do I.
[Edited at 2005-08-15 14:10]
[Edited at 2005-08-15 14:12]
| | | | Alexander Misailov (X)
Russian to English
+ ...
| Thanks, PointBlack | Aug 15, 2005 |
Thanks, PointBlack,
I think in an attempt to defend an agency, you actually proved our point and it seems to have backfired on you. First, are you really an expert translation agency, because the rates and the speed of translation you are talking about are not realistic. And also, pardon me, but I have no desire to give up my rates and my work to somebody in a developing country. And please, do not pretend that you get the same quality translations from those places and cut-throa... See more Thanks, PointBlack,
I think in an attempt to defend an agency, you actually proved our point and it seems to have backfired on you. First, are you really an expert translation agency, because the rates and the speed of translation you are talking about are not realistic. And also, pardon me, but I have no desire to give up my rates and my work to somebody in a developing country. And please, do not pretend that you get the same quality translations from those places and cut-throat rates.
This mentality keeps popping up in the professional field, especially, among agencies. Get paid what you can get, not what you deserve due to education, exptertise and experience. Solidarity??? What are you, running for a seat in UN?
Also, don't forget - an independet contractor's work is not a stable one. You are never guaranteed a constant flow of work or the income. And the cost of living in our countries is so much higher than the ones you are talking about.
Once again, thanks for proving our point - as an agency, all you care about is how to get it done as cheap as possible, no matter the quality. Period.
Thanks, pals. ▲ Collapse
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| Translating 6000 words a day, each day | Aug 16, 2005 |
PointBlank wrote:
However, a skilled translator would have no problems translating 6000 words a day - I know this since I was a translator myself.
Oh my... and only the other day, I spent over 70 minutes looking for a good translation of one certain word in one certain context. (None of my dictionaries and none of my ressources seemed to offer something that really fit).
I wouldn't do that for each and every word, of course, or else I wouldn't earn my money. But cranking out 6'000 words per day, every day! It would amount to machine translation, done by a human. And a machine can do machine translations much better than I could ever hope to do.
Granted, a customer wouldn't want to pay the 2 EUR you mentioned for that kind of translations, either.
So, go right ahead. Sell 6000-words-a-day translations for one cent per word, if you like, for all I care.
[Edited at 2005-08-16 20:45]
| | | | Lagom
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:41
Swedish to English
| 6000 Words per day.... | Aug 16, 2005 |
I know that the days can be long in Sweden during the summer... but that long????!
| | | | | An agency's view again... | Aug 17, 2005 |
This was fun... Yes, you're right - I mixed up the figures. The average price for translation in Sweden is 1,20-2,00SEK per word, not EUR. This amounts to about 0,15-0,23EUR per word.
Some other replies showed a complete lack of understanding of how serious agencies work. This is also a recurring idea in these forums: the notion that we only hire the cheapest translators on the market, only the cheapest bidders. Again, and once and for all: we would never survive if we gave up quali... See more This was fun... Yes, you're right - I mixed up the figures. The average price for translation in Sweden is 1,20-2,00SEK per word, not EUR. This amounts to about 0,15-0,23EUR per word.
Some other replies showed a complete lack of understanding of how serious agencies work. This is also a recurring idea in these forums: the notion that we only hire the cheapest translators on the market, only the cheapest bidders. Again, and once and for all: we would never survive if we gave up quality for low price. That is so stupid, and still we see that argument over and over again. Give it up!! Do you think we could ever keep a customer if we provided the cheapest translation on earth, but the text was crap?
Finally, I have to agree with Ralf:
[quote]Being an outsourcer myself, I couldn't care less about the cost of living of freelancers in my team, provided that they deliver the quality I need.
Of course, we are constantly looking for the best price for translations, with the highest possible quality. As long as we get that at half the price offered in Europe, why should we pay more for less? ▲ Collapse
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