| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] | Will work for food... Thread poster: Andreas Kobell
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Williamson 
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:27
Flemish to English
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| Translation Jungle : Some are will work for food and some won't | Jun 27, 2006 |
If you try not to buy goods that aren't made in third world countries, you would be a translator running around naked. Most textiles are made in China, Hong-Kong,Thailand, Sri-Lanka and flown to the North-America by UPS, FedEx and DHL. Nike soles are sent separately by the same shippers from Amsterdam to Bangkok. A week later a shipment with the leather follows. The shoes are put together in sweat-factories and shipped from there to North-America and Europe, where they are sold at ten times the... See more If you try not to buy goods that aren't made in third world countries, you would be a translator running around naked. Most textiles are made in China, Hong-Kong,Thailand, Sri-Lanka and flown to the North-America by UPS, FedEx and DHL. Nike soles are sent separately by the same shippers from Amsterdam to Bangkok. A week later a shipment with the leather follows. The shoes are put together in sweat-factories and shipped from there to North-America and Europe, where they are sold at ten times their production price. That is today's world.
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In the big language combinations translation has become a commodity. The world of Translation : A jungle with no rules in which you must find your own way and survive.
You can only ask higher rates if you are in a specific market-niche which is linked with your environment and which is too specific to be outsourced. The same is true for less usual language combinations or for niche languages. Spanish to English iand vice-versa is a saturated on the supply side. FrenchEnglish a bit less.
The combination English, French, Spanish, German, Italian, Russian, Chinese, Japanes to say Dutch isn't. Why? Simply because Dutch is niche language and most translators on this site say "no" to working for bread and butter.
Reaction of the outsourcer : Ok, then I shall outsource the translation to...where? Right: Holland, Flanders, South-Africa or to translators living in North-America...
Of course, they could outsource it to Surname or Indonesia, but the kind of Dutch used there is not quite the same as the standard Dutch from Holland/Flanders.
Other niche languages: Finnish, Hungarian, Maltese, Danish,... Instead of complaining : learn a niche language and it is you who sets the rates
[Edited at 2006-06-27 13:36] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Where in Chile do you live????? | Jun 27, 2006 |
I'm sorry, mediamatrix, but I find your calculations questionable to say the least....
mediamatrix wrote: Where I live, 40 Euros is almost one week's minumum legal wage. I agree with you about this, particularly about the "almost" part. But I don't think translators or interpreters should be using this benchmark, no matter where they live. As the original poster said... Andreas Kobell wrote: most of us have studied hard to achieve a certain level of proficiency in what we do, whether we are translators or interpreters. We invested time and spent money to become what we are: language professionals, highly qualified and well prepared to deal with all sorts of complicated terminology in our field of expertise. Most of us have spent some years at university and achieved some sort of degree there. Just like, let's say lawyers, scientists or teachers. This is not a McJob, what we are doing is high quality work and our clients can rightfully expect no less.
mediamatrix wrote: 40 Euros would cover my office rent bill for 2 full weeks. Or, it would pay my office heating costs for the entire winter. Or, it would pay my domestic electricity bill for 3 months. I just checked office rental ads, and couldn't find anything within your rent range. There is no way you can rent an office for 80 Euros a month in Chile -or 40 Euros 2 weeks-, let alone cover your heating costs for the entire winter or domestic electricity bill for three months. I am running a home too, and your numbers just don't make any sense to me!
mediamatrix wrote: And since you ask, the 40 Euros we've been talking about would pay for my connection + ISP charges for almost 3 months I've had Internet since 1994, and even though prices today are probably lower than ever before, I'm still paying around 22 Euro a month. And I've had almost every local ISP, always looking for reliability and good prices, so I know the ISP market very well, and trust me, I am not being ripped off.
mediamatrix wrote: It is not the same in Chile - in Chile I do not suffer European prices and I do not pay exhorbitant European taxes - I enjoy low Chilean prices plus a very very small bit for the beloved Chilean Government. This is very subjective anyway. How small or big this is will depend on (a) how much money you made over the previous fiscal year, and (b) how much of that you are reporting to Impuestos Internos.
mediamatrix wrote: At the end of the day, the rate for any given job is a matter solely for the client and the translator. If both are happy with the terms, conditions and quality, then there is no justification whatsoever for complaints from third parties (i.e. Proziens). I totally agree with you in the first part, but I disagree with your words about what you call "third parties." Of course they have every right to complain, if they find it unfair or detrimental. Complaining is what I do whenever I feel something is unfair for me, and not only in business. Besides, this site is a great place to share and discuss, not only to ask terms and find jobs.
Dear mediamatrix, I can only think you are still confused about EURO-CLP exchange rate.
And one final question for you. Why do you not support those who are against low rates if you just said you charge as if you were still in Belgium because it makes good business sense to you?
From Chile, ALEJANDRA
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juvera
Local time: 02:27
English to Hungarian
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Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
And by the way, you mentioned that rich countries exploit poor ones. Well, as individuals, we all have a choice to take part in that or not....
I don't buy shoes, clothes, and other commodities from sources that outsource those goods to people in the third world. I think Bombardier sucks because they went and opened a factory in Mexico to "exploit" the Mexicans, and they closed the factory here, so a whole town is out of jobs now, right in their homeland. I try as much as possible to buy products in the making of which noone was harmed and I try to buy Canadian as much as possible also to help our economy. But I am making sacrifices, because the pants I didn't buy that came from China cost four times less than the pants I did buy and which was made in Canada. If I get third world rates, how am I going to keep supporting our economy and not opt into third world exploitation?
Victoria, I don't want to interfere with your shopping habits -of which we are getting to know quite a bit - and I agree, that supporting your home country is a noble sacrifice.
But have you asked yourself the question, what happens to the exploited Mexican or Chinese worker, who gets exploited, because he can't find any other way to make ends meet, and willing to work for pittance.
It is quite simple. Less work there is for them, lower their wages will go - they get even more exploited, if that's possible. More we buy, more work for them, they can find other employers looking for workers, and the one paying the least shall have to raise the wages to be able to find capable workers.
That may raise the price of the Chinese trousers a bit, and make us a bit less cash-happy, but eventually the wealth of the world will be somewhat better distributed.
Judith
| | | | Aleksandr Okunev (X)
Local time: 04:27
English to Russian
| Very accurate | Jul 11, 2006 |
Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
It is my impression that the vast majority of translators (including those at poz) are part-timers. How much money dows a part-timer want from his part-time job? Not much. Does he/she care about quality? Only if there's nothing better on TV, in many cases... people get tired, and it's late...
Exactly my point, I have nothing to add.
Stay well
Aleksandr
| | | | Ted Stroll
United States
Local time: 18:27
Portuguese to English
| Ms. Bowman is correct | Sep 6, 2006 |
Ms. Bowman's economic analysis of the translation market is impeccable. I owe her thanks for sparing me from a gaffe that I would not have been able to erase from the Internet.
To be specific: I came across this forum while doing research as I prepared to send a query to the Fire Ant and Worker Bee forum on the Translation Journal website. I wanted to be able to ask, in a dignified manner, why it is that a few years ago I could command 15 to 20 cents per word in my language pair, an... See more Ms. Bowman's economic analysis of the translation market is impeccable. I owe her thanks for sparing me from a gaffe that I would not have been able to erase from the Internet.
To be specific: I came across this forum while doing research as I prepared to send a query to the Fire Ant and Worker Bee forum on the Translation Journal website. I wanted to be able to ask, in a dignified manner, why it is that a few years ago I could command 15 to 20 cents per word in my language pair, and yet now, as I attempt to return to translating after a five-year absence, I have been unable to generate any business (so far not a single assignment!) through ProZ.com even at 10 cents per word.
Ms. Bowman has done me the favor of causing me to realize that it is impossible to ask this question without sounding cantankerous and self-pitying. (In saying this, I am characterizing only my own failings and not the attitude of any other poster here. I want to keep the discourse free of ad hominem sniping. I appreciate every post that's been made in this discussion, and criticize none of them.)
I think I have pretty good credentials. I won't list them here, but of course I have made every effort to present them to prospective clients. Plainly, the translation market is not sufficiently interested in my credentials for me to be able to command the price I could before the Internet rationalized it. My loss, however, is society's gain, because the market is much more efficient now than it was before sites like ProZ.com emerged.
And who am I to complain? It would be hypocritical for me to denounce efficiency in one Internet-related enterprise while I take advantage of it in so many others, e.g., in purchases of everything from plane tickets to software to window shades.
I detect some sentiment in this discussion that it's unfair for a service offering intrinsic value not to earn a commensurate return. That may be, depending on the judge of value, but that's economics. Consider the following examples:
(1) A hard-working elementary school teacher earns $1 million over her lifetime by greatly increasing society's store of human capital. She educates students who go on to cure diseases, promote peace, and advance technology. A professional baseball player who contributes much less to society's store of human capital, as adjudged by a panel of Platonic elders, earns $1 million in two weeks. Unfair? In a sense, perhaps (at least from the point of view of those who share the views of the Platonic elders). But there is a greater supply of talented teachers than of talented professional baseball players.
(2) An author writes a novel that is widely viewed as offering brilliant insights into the human condition. It receives critical praise and the author earns $100,000. A movie company purchases the film rights, produces a movie that transforms the novel's great insights into dreck, and sends the product straight to video as critics pan it. The movie company earns $10 million. Unfair? Perhaps, but in this case the market for dreck yields higher returns than the market for high culture. (We see this phenomenon all the time.)
So back to my personal story. The lesson for me is that I should not complain that I can't succeed in the ProZ.com marketplace even at prices one-third lower than I used to command. I will simply have to be enterprising and find other ways to attract prospective clients who may be willing to pay the price I seek. If we can't reach agreement, I'll have to do something else. That's all there is to it.
Again, I thank Ms. Bowman for sparing me from what otherwise would have been a self-inflicted and very public wound. And I appreciate everyone else's comments as well.
[Edited at 2006-09-06 02:35]
[Edited at 2006-09-06 02:47]
[Edited at 2006-09-06 02:56] ▲ Collapse
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