Pages in topic:   [1 2] >
Different rates in different language pairs
Thread poster: Piotr Wargan
Piotr Wargan  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 09:31
English to Polish
+ ...
Aug 28, 2006

Equal rights - equal stomachs - different money - not funny at all.

This is a quote from a recent post (no agency's names etc.):

Expected cost:
Russian: Euro 0.05 or less
Polish: Euro 0.05 or less
Finnish: Euro 0.08 or less
Swedish: Euro 0.08 or less

Putting the existing or imaginary differences in cost of life, I find this abusing.

Any arguments against?

[Edited at 2006-08-29 07:41]

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2006-08-29 15:29]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 10:31
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Welcome toe Finland for your daily shopping! Aug 28, 2006

Do I understand you are not satisfied by the rate 0.05 for Polish or 0.08 for Finnish? No decent Finnish translator can work for such low rates if they live in Finland. In Poland they probably could manage, but hardly in Warsaw.

Or what do you mean, dear Piotr?

Regards
Heinrich


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Piotr Wargan  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 09:31
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Just this :-) Aug 28, 2006

Hello Heinrich,

I am well aware of the high prices (not in Finland actually, but Norway or Denmark - been there shopping too). But please understand that we have all the houshold goods (TV sets, and the kind) at the same prices and are supposed to buy them earning a fraction of a Western salary... They are imported goods and cost about the same (or more) as in most West European countries (there are of course some exceptions).

After all is there a difference in the process of translation into Polish by a Pole, and a translation by a Swede into Swedish?

But my problem is only this: someone from outside is taking assumptions about other countries (not his own). That is all.

Maybe we will hear from our Moscow colleagues about their shopping costs


Best regards,
Piotr


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Thomas Pfann  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:31
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
Various reasons Aug 28, 2006

Hi Piotr,

it may seem unfair, but there are certainly more reasons behind those rate differences. There is of course, as you mentioned, the different level of cost of living in the respective countries which make the translators there charge more per word in order to be able to afford a decent life.

At the end of the day, it is the translators themselves who set the price - and in doing so, they have to consider what their competitors in the market charge, how much they need to afford a certain standard of living - it's all those famous 'market forces'.

Of course, supply and demand is an important factor, too. I suppose there are far fewer Finnish and Swedish translators as there are Russian and Polish translators. So, if a resource is rare, the price goes up.

And if it's any consolation for you: It's not only the central and eastern european languages who achieve lower rates compared to other European languages. Also Spanish or Italian translators, for example, are usually not paid as well as others.

May the market force be with you.
Thomas


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Piotr Wargan  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 09:31
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
To Thomas: Aug 28, 2006

Hello,

That is an important fact you mention. Supply and demand rule, that is the fact, and they control the price.

Thanks for your cheer-up words, but my market force - I just have to look for it (cannot find it in the field of prices .

Bye,
Piotr


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Arkadiusz Jasinski  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 09:31
English to Polish
+ ...
Piotr is right ! Aug 28, 2006

Dear colleagues,

You are wrong both Thomas and Heinrich.
The practice is that the prices sometimes are higher locally in Poland than 0.05 Euro.
It is the reason that some Polish translators are frustrated.
And believe me. If I had time I would learn Swedish or Finnish quicker than You could learn the rules how to put the special letters into the words from Polish alphabet, for example "ą, ę, ć. ź" in a proper way.

The similar example is from today's post:
====================================
"Requirements for the EN-PL translator:
- based in Poland
- be on-line each woring day by 6pm CET or be able to log on within short time after SMS notification
- use SDLX
- use Trados
- use ICQ or Skype

Requirements for the DE-PL translator:
- based in Poland
- be able to log on within few hours after SMS notification
- use ICQ or Skype

Please do not apply with rates Eur 0.05 / word or higher".
======================================

Please find out that translators from Poland and Germany are treated equally. Thanks God !!!!

But following is the best:

======================================
"In regard to the large number of bids expected, we thank all in advance and appology that only chosen translators will be contacted.

Thank you."
=======================================

Generally speaking, I wish them not to have any bids.


Arkadiusz


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Ania Grajek  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 10:31
German to Polish
+ ...
Let's be optimistic! :) Aug 28, 2006

Don't worry, Piotr. I am optimistic and I believe that Polish translators will soon work for better rates (especially if I have to compete with Polish colleagues and make a living in Germany at the same time!). Polish economy is not doing badly (as long as our dear government stays away from it). Salaries slowly go up - and so will the costs of living.

It will all slowly change and translators will finally start demanding more money for their job without being scared of losing a client because of someone offering lower rates.

And after all, 0.05 EUR per word is still not that bad for translators based in Poland if compared to rates offered by Polish agencies - 0.01 or 0.02 EUR per word or LESS...

[Edited at 2006-08-28 18:09]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Claudia Krysztofiak  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:31
English to German
+ ...
Save your energy for better things Aug 28, 2006

Arkadiusz Jasinski wrote:

And believe me. If I had time I would learn Swedish or Finnish quicker than You could learn the rules how to put the special letters into the words from Polish alphabet, for example "ą, ę, ć. ź" in a proper way.



Arkadiusz, I do not understand what you wish to say with this?

Piotr, prices get down as low as translators working for them can be found. If you do not wish to work for these prices, do not do it. It is of absolutely no use to get mad at such agencies or even less to get mad at fellow translators who receive better payment. The reason for such low prices are not translators who work for higher rates - if you know what I mean.


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Piotr Wargan  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 09:31
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
To Ania Aug 28, 2006

Ania Grajek wrote:



And after all, 0.05 EUR per word is still not that bad for translators based in Poland if compared to rates offered by Polish agencies - 0.01 or o.0.02 EUR per word or LESS...


Hi Ania,

That is a right remark

When I look through prices offered by some (and by no means all!) translation agencies here I wonder how fast/efficient/skilled these people are or what kind of workforce thay can use to offer such low prices to their clients???

Bye,

Piotr

[Edited at 2006-08-28 17:39]


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Piotr Wargan  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 09:31
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
To Claudia Aug 28, 2006

Claudia Krysztofiak wrote:

It is of absolutely no use to get mad at such agencies or even less to get mad at fellow translators who receive better payment. The reason for such low prices are not translators who work for higher rates - if you know what I mean.


Hello Claudia,

Let's give agencies a break - after all they do give us some work from time to time, don't they?

The cause of my frustration - are the translators who offer (.... self-censorship....). To put it short - your message is uderstood

Bye, bye,

Piotr


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Piotr Wargan  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 09:31
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
To Arkadiusz Aug 28, 2006

Arkadiusz Jasinski wrote:

If I had time I would learn Swedish or Finnish quicker than You could learn the rules how to put the special letters into the words from Polish alphabet, for example "ą, ę, ć. ź" in a proper way.





Dear Arkadiusz,

You could be right about Swedish, but have you heard how many cases there are in Finnish? Our 7 Polish cases are just fun compared with their number and complexity in the Finnish language (just look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_language_noun_cases ),so let's better make some powwow with Heinrich in Poland (to discuss cases theirs and ours and use the opportunity of our - still much cheaper - beer

Bye,
Piotr

[Edited at 2006-08-28 18:00]

[Edited at 2006-08-28 20:09]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Natalya Zelikova  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 10:31
Member (2003)
English to Russian
+ ...
discrimination Aug 29, 2006

Yesterday I was actually wanted to post a question in ProZ.com suggestions to ban such postings, discriminating translators by nationality (or country of residence), including batch postings for few language pairs with different rates.

I know that it's impossible to ban low-paid jobs postings for single pair, but to me this case is the case of evident discrimination and can be treated appropriately, at least within the single website.


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Piotr Wargan  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 09:31
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Dear Natalya - that was it Aug 29, 2006

Natalya Zelikova wrote:

Yesterday I was actually wanted to post a question in ProZ.com suggestions to ban such postings, discriminating translators by nationality (or country of residence), including batch postings for few language pairs with different rates.

I know that it's impossible to ban low-paid jobs postings for single pair, but to me this case is the case of evident discrimination and can be treated appropriately, at least within the single website.


That was exactly the thing that bothered me - thanks for expressing it so clearly.

P.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Jan Sundström  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 09:31
English to Swedish
+ ...
It's a free market Aug 29, 2006

Natalya Zelikova wrote:

Yesterday I was actually wanted to post a question in ProZ.com suggestions to ban such postings, discriminating translators by nationality (or country of residence), including batch postings for few language pairs with different rates.

I know that it's impossible to ban low-paid jobs postings for single pair, but to me this case is the case of evident discrimination and can be treated appropriately, at least within the single website.


Let's separate the discussion here.

We have two different issues:
1. translators are upset that agencies offer low prices
2. translators are upset that agencies prices differ between languages
- - -
1. Every day, I get a dozen invitations to tender.
If the prices quoted are too low, I don't answer, it's a simple as that. No reason to get upset.

MacDonalds are hiring staff here in Sweden for 4 EUR/hour, would I work for them? - No.
So does that make me upset? - Again, no.
- - -
2. Prices differ all around the EU, and even more so outside of the EU, but at least we're moving towards a global convergence.

It's the same story about the Polish/Russian/Belarussian building constructor, offered to come to Sweden to work for half the salary of a Swedish employee. That old rule of of supply and demand sets in again.

So should these Swedish companies be banned from hiring staff from overseas? Sorry, but the EU doesn't think so.

And if Proz started banning European firms from posting certain jobs just based on the rates, I guess the EU would have an opinion about that too.

Is that unfair and discriminatory? Well, those workers who take up that offer might beg to differ.

As a rep for an agency, it's my duty to differentiate between prices. If I offered a job to be done in EN>SV for 0,13 EUR/word, I'd get lots of answers, right?

But if I offer the same job to be done in EN>Meänkieli (Tornedalian Finnish, one of the official minority languages in Sweden) for 0,13 EUR, I'd get 0 replies. Why? Because there are only a handful active translators who master Meänkieli, and they all charge at least 0,30 EUR.

So should I use 0,30 EUR as a benchmark and offer it for all langauge combinations, because I'd be discriminating the other translators by offering differentiated prices? - Ooops, I'd be out of business tomorrow.

Go figure...


/Jan


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Piotr Wargan  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 09:31
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
That was not what I meant... Aug 30, 2006

The title of my topic has been changed ... Not by me.

Now it looks as if there was a problem of different rates for different language pairs. That was not what bothered me.

What bothered me was that a company not from Europe put side-by-side some different language pairs, different rates and wrote the word 'cost'. They can name it cost internally, but for us here it is rather a 'rate' (per word).


That is a free market anyway.


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Pages in topic:   [1 2] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Different rates in different language pairs

Advanced search







WordFinder
The words you want Anywhere, Anytime

WordFinder is the market's fastest and easiest way of finding the right word, term, translation or synonym in one or more dictionaries. In our assortment you can choose among more than 120 dictionaries in 15 languages from leading publishers.

More info »
PerfectIt consistency checker
Faster Checking, Greater Accuracy

PerfectIt helps deliver error-free documents. It improves consistency, ensures quality and helps to enforce style guides. It’s a powerful tool for pro users, and comes with the assurance of a 30-day money back guarantee.

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search