| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | How binding is the PO? Can the client adjust after delivery? Thread poster: Anthony Baldwin
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Anthony Baldwin 
United States
Local time: 04:51
Portuguese to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Sónia Tavares wrote:
Dear Anthony,
I usually get documents on pdf format and to be sure about the actual word count for the P.O. I open the PDF in Word (SolidConverter or similar) and I run the new document (.doc) through Trados word counter.
I think this would prevent that kind of trouble in the future!
Have a nice weekend ahead...
Sónia Tavares
These pdfs were from image files, and not OCR-able, so I couldn´t get
a count in this manner.
I would have used pdf2html to convert them, otherwise, then opened in OpenOffice to get a count (similar to what you do, only my software is all open source, running on Linux). Then, of course, I would have used OmegaT while working on them, augmenting my efficiency, and probably actually slept a few of those nights that I stayed up until the wee hours.
| | | | Marc P (X)
Local time: 10:51
German to English
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| How binding is the PO? Can the client adjust after delivery? | Jan 20, 2007 |
Anthony Baldwin wrote:
I have informed them, for future reference, the MUST clarify ON the PO, if I am t charge on target rather than source, and/or, if the PO is to be considered an ¨estimate¨, and therefore ¨adjustable¨ or likely to be ¨adjusted¨, or I will consider their PO binding and charge accordingly.
Anthony,
For future reference, I would turn this around, and request that the following procedure be followed in future to prevent any misunderstandings:
* They send you the source files for review.
* You reply by making an offer on the terms you prefer:
- Flat rate for the job based on your actual source text count (not theirs)
- Flate rate for the job based on your estimated source text count (again, yours and not theirs; in this case, it must be clear on your offer that the count is an estimate only and that the end price is the definitive price)
- Variable end price based on your target count
* They accept and confirm the terms you propose; their confirmation effectively becomes the PO.
I suspect that your customer is not trying to change the terms agreed upon, as you suspect; if the final price paid is dependent upon the target count, it cannot by definition be known in advance. It's also not all that unusual for the source text to be used in cases where it can be obtained easily (i.e. source text in electronic form) and target text otherwise. It doesn't *have* to be done this way, but your customer may simply be assuming that it's standard practice. There are many ways of quantifying text for billing purposes and on the whole, they are all perfectly acceptable - provided they are agreed by both parties in advance.
Marc
| | | | | Eggs and baskets | Jan 20, 2007 |
Anthony Baldwin wrote:
I am going to ¨bite the bullet¨ on this one, but not happily But I will continue to work with them. They´ve provided as much as 30 to 50% of my income for the past three months. Can´t let that go.
Steady, interesting projects, a decent rate, prompt payment...just this headache with ¨adjusting¨ this one invoice on the largest project theyve sent to date.
[/quote]
You've done what you think best here and at least let them know where you stand.
So, it's time to move on:
Just consider for future reference whether it isn't also a good idea - in addition to what you've told them - to get a couple of more eggs in the basket as having 50% coming from one source over an extended period can be problematic. It's great when the going is good but weakens your bargaining position when situations like this arise and can completely wipe you out if they're forced to close doors for any reason.
Just an idea (which you're welcome to dismiss or adapt/use) - it works for me anyhow:
I have what I call my "inner circle" - 4/5 agencies who provide almost equal amounts of my income. It's a balancing act on my side but it pans out more or less that way over the year. I don't allow the combined income from them to exceed 75%-80% of my total annual translation income from agencies.
I then have the "outer circle" - a slightly larger number of agencies. They all pay well and on time. They make up the balance of my translation income from agencies.
Direct clients (lawyers, etc) fall into a different category for me because I'm not only a translator.
If one of the agencies in the "inner circle" does something that I'm not entirely happy about (but I'm otherwise happy to deal with them), I let them know what the problem is, we normally resolve it quickly and life goes on.
However by having the "outer circle", keeping them active and monitoring their payment habits, I also have one to "promote", so to speak, if there are repercussions from having spoken my mind.
An agency that doesn't supply me with weekly work doesn't even come into consideration for the "inner circle" If I haven't heard from an "inner circle" agency for a week-ten days, I'm in contact to find out the reason. Call it pushy, but it works in my field. Hardly happens because they are nearly all agencies doing/specialising in legal and that's almost exclusively what I do.
I also never take on large projects that are probably only going to be once-off affairs (unless it were a legal textbook, for example, that would interest me, have a sensible deadline and be good exposure). They would take me out of circulation with the "inner circle" and defeat the purpose otherwise.
The "inner circle", in turn, also know their larger projects need to be spaced so that I can service the other "inner circle" clients - i.e. if a larger project (10,000 - 15,000 words plus) requires I work on it more than 4 hours a day (approx. 2,000 words raw, unproofed output), I generally don't take it.
Sure lots of others have ideas about spreading business risk, but this is what works for me anyhow.
[Edited at 2007-01-20 18:51]
| | | | Textklick
Local time: 09:51
German to English
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In memoriam | Managing business risk | Jan 20, 2007 |
Lawyer-Linguist wrote:
Just an idea (which you're welcome to dismiss or adapt/use) - it works for me anyhow:
I have what I call my "inner circle" - 4/5 agencies who provide almost equal amounts of my income. It's a balancing act on my side but it pans out more or less that way over the year. I don't allow the combined income from them to exceed 75%-80% of my total annual income.
I then have the "outer circle" - a slightly larger number of agencies. They all pay well and on time.
Absolutely. If one client out of a total 5 "goes walkabouts", you could be heavily disadvantaged.
See also Ralf's article http://www.proz.com/ba_conference/managing_business_risk_ba2006.pdf (or less graphically and more quickly here: http://www.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/84/ )
Cheers
Chris
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Anthony Baldwin
United States
Local time: 04:51
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | balancing and spinning | Jan 20, 2007 |
Textklick wrote: Lawyer-Linguist wrote:
Just an idea (which you're welcome to dismiss or adapt/use) - it works for me anyhow:
I have what I call my "inner circle" - 4/5 agencies who provide almost equal amounts of my income. It's a balancing act on my side but it pans out more or less that way over the year. I don't allow the combined income from them to exceed 75%-80% of my total annual income.
I then have the "outer circle" - a slightly larger number of agencies. They all pay well and on time.
Absolutely. If one client out of a total 5 "goes walkabouts", you could be heavily disadvantaged. See also Ralf's article http://www.proz.com/ba_conference/managing_business_risk_ba2006.pdf (or less graphically and more quickly here: http://www.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/84/ ) Cheers Chris
I seem to see a rotation in the mix.
For one or two months, one agency will be overloading me while others have nothing, then another comes to the forefront.
I have some who rather regularly send small projects, others who show up once every two or three months, but with something chunky and lucrative...
Then there are the ones who only call at 9pm on Friday evening with something they desperately need on Monday morning...Which I take if I have the time and need the dough, only.
I´ve seen some agencies feed my family for six months and then disappear off the map when the PM I was working with leaves.
That sucks.
All together, I think I have over a dozen agencies for whom I work, several law firms, one web portal for whom I did the whole FAQ, and now sends occasional newsletters, marketing materials or site updates, I have a real estate mgmt agency that sends eviction notices, housing policy stuff on occasion, a whole bunch at once, then nothing for a year...And then the occasional birth cert., etc, type of private client who seeks translation for the INS process, once only, usually, but who recommend me to their friends for the same...pocket change stuff that adds up, etc.
This one in question was a new client three months ago, and have kept me quite busy since the beginning or our relationship. In general, I have enjoyed and benefited well from the relationship, despite my annoyance with this particular digression into stupidity.
[Edited at 2007-01-20 16:31]
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Anthony Baldwin wrote:
Apparently, they didn´t really know the word count, but estimated, and wrote their PO accordingly.
Yes it is their mistake. And they don't know their way out of it. No way you would surrender 1,500 dollars, but you could make a gesture, they wouldn't lose too much face and you could live with it.
May I suggest you a good program to count PDF files by simply drag and drop :
http://www.surefiresoftware.com/totalassistant/
| | | | Anthony Baldwin
United States
Local time: 04:51
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
wolmix wrote: Anthony Baldwin wrote:
Apparently, they didn´t really know the word count, but estimated, and wrote their PO accordingly.
Yes it is their mistake. And they don't know their way out of it. No way you would surrender 1,500 dollars, but you could make a gesture, they wouldn't lose too much face and you could live with it. May I suggest you a good program to count PDF files by simply drag and drop : http://www.surefiresoftware.com/totalassistant/
That´d be cool if it ran on my platform.
Anything that can be OCRed I can count, anyway, with what I have.
These were image files and basically impossible to OCR.
And you´re right...their error, but I must pay for it.
Typical, eh...
| | | | Marc P (X)
Local time: 10:51
German to English
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| Word count on Linux | Jan 21, 2007 |
Anthony Baldwin wrote:
That´d be cool if it ran on my platform.
Anything that can be OCRed I can count, anyway, with what I have.
There are various ways of counting the content of PDF files, which you may already know about. Opening the file in KWord, then using the File > Statistics function is one of them. You might also find my TKount utility convenient:
http://www.omegat.org/omegat/omegatk/tkount_1.3.zip
Marc
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