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Standard Payment Term: 45 days Thread poster: Carolin Haase
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Dear colleagues,
some time ago (and again a couple of days ago) I completed a large translation on behalf of a US-based client. His payment terms are 45 days (which is rather long, but let's not get into that, I accepted, after all!). How are these days counted? As "normal" days or as working days? Is there some rule for this in the US?
The reason why I'm asking is: According to my counting method, payment was due April 16th; I send a reminder yesterday and the outsourcer repl... See more Dear colleagues,
some time ago (and again a couple of days ago) I completed a large translation on behalf of a US-based client. His payment terms are 45 days (which is rather long, but let's not get into that, I accepted, after all!). How are these days counted? As "normal" days or as working days? Is there some rule for this in the US?
The reason why I'm asking is: According to my counting method, payment was due April 16th; I send a reminder yesterday and the outsourcer replied that he was going to pay all right, but his standard payment terms were 45 days and he was actually going to pay me early.
Now, what do I make of that? Did I miscalculate, or do you only count working days? Because if so, he's right and I am wrong. If not, he's paying late, i. e hasn't paid yet.
Thanks for your help on this matter!
All the best,
Carolin ▲ Collapse
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Hester Eymers 
Netherlands
Local time: 00:34
Member (2005)
English to Dutch
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Hi Carolin,
The US-based agency I work for also has payment terms of 45 days. It means I normally get paid after about six weeks, sometimes earlier (30 days). Maybe you should just ask your client how (s)he counts, to avoid any misunderstandings about this issue.
Best regards,
Hester
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| From the end of the month | Apr 20, 2007 |
Hi Carolin,
I don't know if this is your case, but my clients count those days starting with the end of the month when I date my invoice:
Let's say if I make the Invoice today, April, 20 they start counting 45 days from April 30.
I hate long terms X-(
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| I would like to put a different question: | Apr 20, 2007 |
Can we ask a plumber to repair our sink and than offer him a 45-day payment deadline?
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Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 15:34
English to German
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In memoriam | My experience | Apr 20, 2007 |
30 days are 30 calendar days. Greetings from this 24/7 country.
A 45 days term is highly unusual, BTW. Do the 45 days refer to the delivery date or the invoice date?
Best regards,
Nicole
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Tokyo_Moscow
Japan
Local time: 07:34
Japanese to Russian
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| How about 120 days? | Apr 20, 2007 |
Everything probably just depends on that particularly country rules and payment practice.
Here in Japan payment is rather slow, and depending on the agency I only receive my money in 90 or even 120 days! That is how the calculation made: if I send my translation on the April 15, they have a deadline for invoices on May 10. That job is considered as "May job". Then it is the last day of "next next month", ie only END OF JULY !!! 105 days or longer. Also, many agencies would ask the translat... See more Everything probably just depends on that particularly country rules and payment practice.
Here in Japan payment is rather slow, and depending on the agency I only receive my money in 90 or even 120 days! That is how the calculation made: if I send my translation on the April 15, they have a deadline for invoices on May 10. That job is considered as "May job". Then it is the last day of "next next month", ie only END OF JULY !!! 105 days or longer. Also, many agencies would ask the translators to pay bank transfer fee, about 10 dollars, and deduct 10 % taxes. When I interpret in Tokyo I often have to pay my train fares to the spot myself as agency refuses to reimbursh it. So I assume that 45 days is not no bad...
Maybe someone has ideas of how to improve the situation? Please share. Thanks in advance. ▲ Collapse
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| NET45 payment policy | Apr 20, 2007 |
i find it unfair that freelancers must be covered by this NET45 payment policy.
personally, i hate long payment terms. i don't see the logic for big agencies to delay payment or invoke a US policy on freelance translators.
i have several clients who are nice enough to waive the 45-or 60-day payment terms, but there are agencies who are so unreasonable and would really insist on invoking a 45-day term even for a $10 job. yup, i accepted a $10 job for a one page document ... See more i find it unfair that freelancers must be covered by this NET45 payment policy.
personally, i hate long payment terms. i don't see the logic for big agencies to delay payment or invoke a US policy on freelance translators.
i have several clients who are nice enough to waive the 45-or 60-day payment terms, but there are agencies who are so unreasonable and would really insist on invoking a 45-day term even for a $10 job. yup, i accepted a $10 job for a one page document that only needs a little polishing. i made it clear in my correspondence that i require immediate payment not later than three (3) days after the delivery.
all of a sudden, this guy tells me that he cannot pay the $10 since they have a NET45 policy! wow! i really find it insulting and degrading. had i known of the policy earlier, i wouldn't have taken the job.
i believe as translators, we must organize ourselves and put our feet down when it comes to payment terms.
being a growing industry, i believe it's about time that there should be a standard payment policy that translators should adopt, such as:
(1) 50% payment upon acceptance of PO; 50% full payment not later than seven (7) days after delivery.
(2) 50% escrow payment to proz prior to posting of job/project... (as guarantee to the translator that client has already made initial payments via proz)
(3) if client cannot extend partial payment, full payment should be made not later than 30 days after completion and acceptance of work.
(4) 45- or 60-day payment terms not acceptable.
(5) a 3% weekly surcharge shall be added to late payments per agreed due date.
(6) contracts below $100 should be paid in full not later than three (3) working days after delivery and acceptance of materials.
there are a lot of combinations that we can come up with.
i just hope that the NET45 policy be discussed in the coming conference in budapest... or we can collectively draft a payment policy that can be adopted by all freelance translators even outside the proz community.
if we are really serious in developing the industry, let's start by coming up with an omnibus payment policy... i think it's about time that our voices be heard! ▲ Collapse
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| I do not agree with long terms ... | Apr 20, 2007 |
I find it degrading and insulting to be paid in such long payment terms. It is OK if the agency has, say, a strong payment policy, saying: "all invoices should be paid on the x of the month". That would be unitary and accepting, whether I delivered on the x+1 (and have to wait until the next month) or x-1 (and shall be paid tomorrow). But this 45, 60 or even 120 days seem absolute scam to me. After all I cannot go to the grocery and say that I shall pay in 45 days when I receive the money for th... See more I find it degrading and insulting to be paid in such long payment terms. It is OK if the agency has, say, a strong payment policy, saying: "all invoices should be paid on the x of the month". That would be unitary and accepting, whether I delivered on the x+1 (and have to wait until the next month) or x-1 (and shall be paid tomorrow). But this 45, 60 or even 120 days seem absolute scam to me. After all I cannot go to the grocery and say that I shall pay in 45 days when I receive the money for the translation .... I also think that this is a strategy of agencies to have their back secured and wait until the end client pays, so they do not have to pay from their own pocket.
For me the matter is simple: I deliver tomorrow, I invoice tomorrow you pay in 10 days at the most. It is however another matter if I agree with longer terms....
I am at the beginning of my freelancing and have been so lucky as to be paid quite soon after delivery or at request. Now, I say that I shall never accept such long payment terms. Hope I'll never have to
Have a nice week-end ▲ Collapse
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Dinny
Greece
Local time: 01:34
Italian to Danish
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| Since when does a client decide when to pay? | Apr 20, 2007 |
I agree with Piotr: You cannot tell a plumber when you will pay him for his work. And that goes for translators as well, or at least it should be so.
Each of us should decide on the payment terms we can accept and the client/agency must decide whether they can accept this or not. If they can't, they are free to go elsewhere. Like in any other business.
My terms are: Anything under €/USD 100 at delivery, bigger jobs 30 days from date of invoice. I do translations, not ... See more I agree with Piotr: You cannot tell a plumber when you will pay him for his work. And that goes for translators as well, or at least it should be so.
Each of us should decide on the payment terms we can accept and the client/agency must decide whether they can accept this or not. If they can't, they are free to go elsewhere. Like in any other business.
My terms are: Anything under €/USD 100 at delivery, bigger jobs 30 days from date of invoice. I do translations, not financing! I have had new clients accepting these terms when negotiating the job and then after delivery TELL me about their payment terms which obviously are longer than mine. This immediately causes me to pass by the Blue Board to leave a comment! ▲ Collapse
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Yolanda Broad
United States
Local time: 18:34
Member (2000)
French to English
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MODERATOR | Standard way of counting is by calendar days | Apr 20, 2007 |
To bring this thread back on topic, that is, the issue of how "days" are counted, the standard is to count calendar days. However, standard contract (i.e., purchase order) terms also include *as of when*. In other words, either "net" (starting on either the date of delivery, or, more normally, the date the invoice is issued) or "end of month/15th of month" (again, counting from date of delivery of issuance of the invoice). Payment terms can also be "immediate," of course, and, in fact, for ei... See more To bring this thread back on topic, that is, the issue of how "days" are counted, the standard is to count calendar days. However, standard contract (i.e., purchase order) terms also include *as of when*. In other words, either "net" (starting on either the date of delivery, or, more normally, the date the invoice is issued) or "end of month/15th of month" (again, counting from date of delivery of issuance of the invoice). Payment terms can also be "immediate," of course, and, in fact, for either before or after delivery.
Of course, this doesn't mean the purchaser of your services *knows* how standard contracts are formulated--who knows how this particular fellow counts his days! Hester Eymers gave some good advice: ask him.
One more thing to keep in mind: when I receive an inquiry from an existing or new client, I'm always asked to quote. Quoting means not only specifying your fee/rate, but also your terms of payment. So the quote would look something like: $1,000/hour, 30 days net--I'm assuming your hourly services are worthy of high remuneration...
Yolanda Broad ▲ Collapse
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| Yes, strange how would-be clients think they should decide what to pay and when | Apr 20, 2007 |
I have had a number of enquiries recently to which I have not responded. They all had one thing in common, i.e. they came from people (agencies) who did not ask if I had time to take on a job for them, but simply told me they had a job they wanted me to do; they then went on to state how much they would be paying me, invariably in USD and source words (which in my language pair, which normally counts target words, worked out at EUR 0.02 to EUR 0.04 per target word), as well as when they would pa... See more I have had a number of enquiries recently to which I have not responded. They all had one thing in common, i.e. they came from people (agencies) who did not ask if I had time to take on a job for them, but simply told me they had a job they wanted me to do; they then went on to state how much they would be paying me, invariably in USD and source words (which in my language pair, which normally counts target words, worked out at EUR 0.02 to EUR 0.04 per target word), as well as when they would pay me (next year, perhaps).
I do not doubt that there are always colleagues, at any given point in time, who are short of work and have had a dry spell for about 2 weeks, who will fall prey to it.
Astrid
P.S. To answer the original question, there are as many different ways for agencies to count days to their advantage as there are for them to count words (deduct all numbers, all repeat occurrences of the word "the", etc.).
[Edited at 2007-04-20 20:34] ▲ Collapse
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Carolin Haase
Germany
Local time: 00:34
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER | @all: thanks for your input! | Apr 21, 2007 |
ybroad wrote:
To bring this thread back on topic, that is, the issue of how "days" are counted, the standard is to count calendar days. However, standard contract (i.e., purchase order) terms also include *as of when*. In other words, either "net" (starting on either the date of delivery, or, more normally, the date the invoice is issued) or "end of month/15th of month" (again, counting from date of delivery of issuance of the invoice). Payment terms can also be "immediate," of course, and, in fact, for either before or after delivery.
Yolanda Broad
Yes, I counted the calender days after date of invoice. That seemed to be the most sensible thing to do - I always do it this way, and nobody has ever complained...
There's even a EU-regulation where 30-day-payment-terms are fixed. But certainly this doesn't apply to the US, like many other things... Kyoto...
Well, I hope I will get paid soon. If not, I'll become some squeaking wheel (?), as one collegue put it so nicely.
Thanks to everyone!
All the best,
Carolin
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 00:34
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| Normal days unless otherwise specified | Apr 21, 2007 |
Carolin Haase wrote:
His payment terms are 45 days ...How are these days counted? As "normal" days or as working days? Is there some rule for this in the US?
I'm not an American, but IMO it should be specified if these 'days' are business days and not calendar days.
Does your bank tell you it takes '3 days' or '3 business days' for a cheque to clear?
The whole point of '30 days' is that 30 days equal one month, and there are only 20 business days in a month.
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| Calendar days | Apr 21, 2007 |
I suspect they got something wrong. Either they are looking at the wrong invoice or they are taking you for somebody else. If not, then they are probably playing hide nd seek to gain some time.
Note: 45 days are calculated from the date of your invoice, not the day the translation was sent to the outsourcer. However, it is an accepted practice that you can invoice at an earlier date than the actual date you draw up the invoice, as long as the invoice date is not earlier than the dat... See more I suspect they got something wrong. Either they are looking at the wrong invoice or they are taking you for somebody else. If not, then they are probably playing hide nd seek to gain some time.
Note: 45 days are calculated from the date of your invoice, not the day the translation was sent to the outsourcer. However, it is an accepted practice that you can invoice at an earlier date than the actual date you draw up the invoice, as long as the invoice date is not earlier than the date on which you sent back the finished translation. In this case, don't be surprised if you don't get your money on time - larger agencies have to put your invoice into the accounting cycle, and that can take sometime, as they seldom do it in real time (usually once a week). The best thing is to send the invoice along with the translaion, in the same e-mail. ▲ Collapse
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Carolin Haase
Germany
Local time: 00:34
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks again! | Apr 21, 2007 |
Everything turned out fine!
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