60 days after the day of invoice?
Thread poster: The Misha
The Misha
Local time: 22:31
Russian to English
+ ...
Sep 21, 2007

I have recently noticed in the job postings on ProZ, that an increasing number of outsources push the genereous payment terms of Net 45 or Net 60 on us. Getting paid 60 days after doing the job? Hello! Is it outrageous or is it just me? I think they are only doing it to us because we let them. Next thing we know, they'll push it off to 90, or at the end of the fiscal year - or ask us to lend them money outright.

As for myself, I do not even bother bidding on those. Instead, I send the outsorcer a polite email explaining that I choose not to bid on his job because the payment terms are obscene. I guess, that's one of the reasons I am chronically underemployed. Anyway, what do you folks do?


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:31
English to German
+ ...
Lending money Sep 22, 2007

Hi Misha,
I think they are only doing it to us because we let them. Next thing we know, they'll push it off to 90, or at the end of the fiscal year - or ask us to lend them money outright.

Delivering ahead of payment is the equivalent of lending money, regardless of the payment terms.

Two issues are important in this context:
- Credit risk increases disproportionally with long payment terms: it's reasonable to predict your customer's financial status over a period of two weeks - but three months?
- If you accept a term of 60 or 90 days, you should be aware of the interest effect (IOW your pricing should reflect the cost of credit).

One should be aware that by accepting long terms of payment vis-à-vis intermediaries (agencies), you're in effect funding their business.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Lawyer-Linguist  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 03:31
Dutch to English
+ ...
Precisely .. Sep 22, 2007

Ralf Lemster wrote:

One should be aware that by accepting long terms of payment vis-à-vis intermediaries (agencies), you're in effect funding their business.



And such terms are a strong indicator that the outsourcer is hopelessly undercapitalised.





[Edited at 2007-09-22 18:05]


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Boris Sigalov
Local time: 05:31
English to Russian
30 days Sep 22, 2007

The EU norm is 30 days.

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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 04:31
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Some do, some don't Sep 22, 2007

The Misha wrote:
Getting paid 60 days after doing the job? Hello! Is it outrageous or is it just me?


Some of my usual clients pay within 7 days. Others pay after 60 days. Both groups regularly send me work and my bank balance is just fine because the money keeps pouring it.


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Tomasz Ratajczak  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:31
Polish to Swedish
+ ...
And some want you to pay for fast payment Sep 22, 2007

Last agency I did a job for had an option of paying in 7 days but then they would charge 2% of the invoice Otherwise 45 days...

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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:31
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
It is very cheeky that way round Sep 22, 2007

Tomasz Ratajczak wrote:

Last agency I did a job for had an option of paying in 7 days but then they would charge 2% of the invoice Otherwise 45 days...


However, my father tells me that in the business he used to have (he is meanwhile retired) he wrote on the bottom of his invoices to customers that there was a 2% discount for payment within 7 days. It made a lot of customers pay within 7 days. It is apparently quite common to do that (outside the world of translation), as a fast payment incentive.

Nevertheless, I find it downright cheeky of any outsourcer to demand that.

Astrid


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The Misha
Local time: 22:31
Russian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
2% wouldn't be so bad Sep 22, 2007

Thanks eveyone to sharing your thoughts on the matter. Frankly, I wouldn't even mind giving a 2% discount for a prompt payment, however, they usually don't give you such option. In all fairness, one of the outsources to whom I once sent an email explaining why I wouldn't bid on his job, actually knocked the term down to 30 days from 45, and I did get the job. However, he seemed to be fairly short-squeezed and needed translators badly for a large job. It only goes to show that when they do need us bad they are flexible. What matters most though is that they be decent: I forwarded an invoice to my major client yesterday (we both sit in the same town),and guess what? - the check was in today's mail.

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Suzette Martin-Johnson
Canada
Member (2007)
French to English
+ ...
Actually I wouldn't mind Sep 22, 2007

While it is a bit cheeky, I think the 2% idea is an ok incentive. (My husband disagreed when I ran it by him the other day, though). I haven't ever done it but because I'm waiting for a couple of sixty-day payers for large jobs at the moment and sweating it out as I watch the USD nose dive, I've been doing some thinking about what their payment was worth 30 days ago and what it will be worth in 30 days' time. All the late ones are in that currency- what rotten luck.

I agree - I have given the companies a loan by allowing them 60 days. I'm going to insist on 30 days or less after this batch. Maybe I was that desperate before but I can be a little more choosy at this stage of my life.


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Hepburn  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 04:31
English to French
+ ...
Definitely NO to 60 days Sep 23, 2007

I also let agencies know that I am not interested in the 60 days payment clause and will not aply for the job. I usually word it rather strongly too. and consequently, I never have to put up with that delay.

On the other hand, there is one agency who pays on receipt of the files! And as I told the owner when I increased my rates generally a few months back, I kept my rates unchanged for him as this imediate payment is so decent and has to be acknowledged.

I too was tempted by offering a discount for prompt payment, but have not done so, yet.

I have also often sent caustic e-mails to peole who post a job for a 200 words letter or even *one sentence* with payment in 30 days! I once got the job and immediate payment, plus continued work. So, I think we should not let ourselves be treated in a shameful manner as it reflects on the whole profession.


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Vadim Poguliaev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 05:31
English to Russian
30 days EOM Sep 25, 2007

I heard several times, that it's standard for EU, but is it specified anywhere? Some EU directive perhaps?
I have similar issue. Client offers choice between 60 days EOM and 15 days EOM with 2.5% discount.
However, they almost never meet 15 days EOM term and I'm trying to negotiate 30 days EOM without any discounts.
Some regulatory norm regarding payment term would be a good argument.


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The Misha
Local time: 22:31
Russian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Why does it have to be regulated? Sep 25, 2007

Vadim, why, but why does it have to be regulated? These folks in the EU do have a thing about regulation, not unlike in the country I have the misfortune of having been born in. Just say NO! Tell them what you want and how you want it - and then bargain, bargain, bargain. Eventually, you'll reach a point in the middle that you are both not happy with, but can still live with. That's free markets for you.

To illustrate the point, my best and most valuable client pays right away. But then again, when he needs the job done yesterday, I sometimes work through the night, and I don't charge him extra for it. Get my gist? Cheers!

Michael


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Iván Madrigal  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:31
English to Spanish
I totally agree, Net 60 is far too long ahead in the future Sep 26, 2007

And allowing these kind of behaviour, we are indeed funding their business.
Then again I understand if any translator in need of work does accept Net 60 payment terms, we all have bills to pay and some of us mouths to feed...
But morally, I am against.
The longest I would like to accept is Net 30, companies should not even propose to pay two months after receiveing the final invoice, which is sometimes much later than when they receive the final version of the translation..


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MariusV  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 05:31
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
ask them for a bigger rate Sep 27, 2007

I think it should be simple - if those people want you to "credit" them for 2 months instead of 1 month, ask them for a bigger rate (say + 10 %). In most cases, when you ask for that, the payment term comes down to normal 30 days - tested in practice

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Vadim Poguliaev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 05:31
English to Russian
bingo Sep 27, 2007

The client I mentioned above accepted 30 days EOM. It was easier than I thought. =)

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