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At least one client is not accepting the readjusted invoice ( EURO / USD )
Thread poster: xxxBrandis
xxxBrandis
Local time: 08:17
English to German
+ ...
Sep 25, 2007

Hi! About a month back we did a short translation for an outsourcer, agreed to a certain value in euro and the equivalent in USD, now the dollar value gone down a bit against €uro. All other outsourcers saw that aspect and accordingly accepted the readjusted value of about old invoice + 20% loss on USD conversion value. One is playing dumb and upon sending multiple reminders finally paid the old value and playing dead duck. We cannot put a remark on the BB about this, because infact he had paid, only the old value and did not pay to the account as agreed instead paid to paypal. Does anyone have an idea of how to tackle this, we would be otherwise losing value on coming payment due to this fiscal fluctuation, but our translation quality had remained same. Can we officially enforce this on this site as a matter of general rule, so that such things finally become obvious and one does not end up in a fight. Best regards, Brandis

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2007-09-25 13:22]

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2007-09-25 13:46]


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Amy Williams  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:17
Italian to English
+ ...
business risk Sep 25, 2007

Hi Brandis,
As far as I can make out, if the client agreed to a certain value (in whatever currency) in the first place they are under no obligation to pay you anything more than that--why should they?! I would hesitate to give a client more than one currency option in the first place anyway. The risk that the value of a currency will go up or down is one that you run yourself. Maybe you've missed out this time but can adjust your fee accordingly for next time. This is something YOU have to absorb, not your client.
Maybe I've misunderstood?

Best,
Amy


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Jalapeno
Local time: 08:17
English to German
... Sep 25, 2007

Probably not what you want to hear, but ...

It's no secret that currencies fluctuate against each other. In my opinion, you were a little reckless to agree to payment in two different currencies. Frankly, I find it a little strange that you found not only one but apparently several outsourcers who agreed to this arrangement.


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Suzette Martin-Johnson
Canada
Member (2007)
French to English
+ ...
Agree Sep 25, 2007

I agree that once your invoice is made up then it stays at the face value.

I now have to face the depreciation of my invoices that were in US and charge more next time around.


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 08:17
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
That is not the way it happened Sep 25, 2007

Hi!
The combination is like this:-
€uro being my primary fiscus, I would adjust to the equivalent in USD or other currency, where the higher word count (source / target ) will be taken into account. This is the reason many clients had adjusted to my suggestion, excepting one. He does not respect the fact that I give a short term credit while delivering the translation in advance and still wait 30 days. He simply paid a 30 days USd value now on paypal and I am still losing 20% difference on my base €uro value. Best Brandis

[Edited at 2007-09-25 12:21]


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Amy Williams  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:17
Italian to English
+ ...
At least one client is not accepting the readjusted invoice Sep 25, 2007

Brandis wrote:

He does not respect the fact that I give a short term credit while delivering the translation in advance and still wait 30 days. He simply paid a 30 days USd value now on paypal and I am still losing 20% difference on my base €uro value.


I'm not sure I understand. Did your client pay within your (agreed) payment terms (30 days or whatever)?


[Edited at 2007-09-25 12:28]


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 08:17
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER
@ amy Sep 25, 2007

Amy Williams wrote:

Brandis wrote:

He does not respect the fact that I give a short term credit while delivering the translation in advance and still wait 30 days. He simply paid a 30 days USd value now on paypal and I am still losing 20% difference on my base €uro value.


I'm not sure I understand. Did your client pay within your (agreed) payment terms?
Leaving aside the currency fluctuations, there is this margin of some percentile attached to the pricing for giving the client a credit over 30 days, believing he / she would pay it all. This part is obvious, many clients do not wish to see it separately listed in the invoice, but we do it in the listing, er... case dependent. Meaning generally 20% loss + percentile financing loss along the same terms related to the currency fluctuations. Best regards, Brandis


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 04:17
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
Currency fluctuation for small contracts are almost irrelevant Sep 25, 2007

Brandis,
you said it was a small job. USD and EUR have changed their exchange rate lately, but in 30 days they have not changed so much as to make the difference relevant, in particular for a small job.

You may be raising the issue as a general principle, and sure enough for large contracts (figures with 5-6 digits) or for long term contracts it is general practice to take into account currency fluctuation and agree on the exact terms for dealing with them, but for small translation services, relatively small invoices and short term contracts is not worth it.
It is probably easier and common practice to maintain the agreed price and absorb any variation.

bye
Gianfranco



[Edited at 2007-09-25 12:51]


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Daniel García
English to Spanish
+ ...
What was the currency of the purchase order? Sep 25, 2007

Hi! About a month back we did a short translation for an outsourcer, agreed to a certain value in euro and the equivalent in USD, now the dollar value gone down a bit against €uro.


As I would see this, I would not make adjustments on prices already agreed.

It depends on the currency of your purchase order.

If the purchase order was agreed in dollars, then the invoice should be in dollars for the same ammount (tough luck for you).

If the purchase order was agreed in euro, then the invoice should be in euro for the same ammount (tough luck for the customer).

How big is the difference, anyway?

Daniel


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Amy Williams  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:17
Italian to English
+ ...
At least one client is not accepting the readjusted invoice Sep 25, 2007

Brandis wrote:
Leaving aside the currency fluctuations, there is this margin of some percentile attached to the pricing for giving the client a credit over 30 days, believing he / she would pay it all. This part is obvious, many clients do not wish to see it separately listed in the invoice, but we do it in the listing, er... case dependent. Meaning generally 20% loss + percentile financing loss along the same terms related to the currency fluctuations.


How confusing. Are you saying that you gave your client a short credit term (say 15 days) and that had you given them a longer credit term (say 30 days) you would have upped your initial charge? But now the client has paid after 30 days you have lost money on the credit terms and the currency?

If this is the case and you had agreed a penalty charge in advance for late payment then of course, why not chase it up. However, the client can't be held responsible (unless otherwise agreed) for currency fluctuations or anything you didn't agree on, and invoicing them for that is just plain cheeky.

There seem to be two completely separate issues here. It would have really helped if you could have told the whole story from the start at the beginning of the thread.

Best,
Amy


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 08:17
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER
do not wish to mention the loss on conversion and fluctuations Sep 25, 2007

dgmaga wrote:

Hi! About a month back we did a short translation for an outsourcer, agreed to a certain value in euro and the equivalent in USD, now the dollar value gone down a bit against €uro.


As I would see this, I would not make adjustments on prices already agreed.

It depends on the currency of your purchase order.

If the purchase order was agreed in dollars, then the invoice should be in dollars for the same ammount (tough luck for you).

If the purchase order was agreed in euro, then the invoice should be in euro for the same ammount (tough luck for the customer).

How big is the difference, anyway?

Daniel
however, the quotation was a base €uro figure which I normally quote to all agencies and or the equivalent in USD ( can also be any other currency) + about 3% paypal transaction value which I do not earn. In a situation like this the loss on USD (about 20%), which is the primary currency of the client, that reflects internally as loss at the paypal + 3% pp transaction value. While the original invoice set in USD in good days and the pay-cycle is not over, I demand that the invoice be paid in my primary currency, which is €uro. Rest being as always had. I am having trouble only with one client, all others have agreed to this change. In percentile the total on this project would be about 26% on the agreement. @ Amy. I had considered 30 days pay-cycle as short term credit.My normal agreement is to balance the invoice between 10-20 days and the set and agreed invoice value would not reflect the credit part, the quoted price embeds infact this detail. Best regards, Brandis

[Edited at 2007-09-25 13:14]


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KathyT  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 17:17
Japanese to English
What if the dollar had gone the other way? Sep 25, 2007

dgmaga wrote:
If the purchase order was agreed in dollars, then the invoice should be in dollars for the same amount (tough luck for you).
If the purchase order was agreed in euro, then the invoice should be in euro for the same amount (tough luck for the customer).


If the dollar had gone the other way, I assume you would have offered to discount the invoice/reimburse the customer accordingly?
Agree with others above that it is unwise to quote in multiple currencies unless you are prepared to absorb exactly this kind of risk... If I were the Outsourcer, I would certainly feel like I was getting the short end of the stick here. You are running a business and should perhaps consider incorporating a little "plus alpha" into your quotes to account for all the kinds of extra charges you mention.


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tectranslate ITS GmbH
Local time: 08:17
German
+ ...
I don't get the problem Sep 25, 2007

If you want to be inured to currency fluctuations, why don't you just conduct your entire business in Euro and give dollar figures explicitly for information only, if at all?

That's what we do and it works just fine.


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Lawyer-Linguist  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 07:17
Dutch to English
+ ...
Precisely Sep 25, 2007

tectranslate wrote:

If you want to be inured to currency fluctuations, why don't you just conduct your entire business in Euro and give dollar figures explicitly for information only, if at all?

That's what we do and it works just fine.


In fact, don't even bother with anything for information purposes, the client can use his own currency converter.

You made the bed for yourself, by complicating matters, now I'm afraid you'll have to lie in it.

And with all due respect, if your business correspondence/terms are as confusingly written as your posts, there's no wonder issues such as these arise.


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 08:17
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@ tec translate Sep 25, 2007

tectranslate wrote:

If you want to be inured to currency fluctuations, why don't you just conduct your entire business in Euro and give dollar figures explicitly for information only, if at all?

That's what we do and it works just fine.
This is primarily because some countries trade in dollar as the most widely extablished medium of exchange and do not prefer to pay in €uro, due to many reasons. Hence there would be a certain parity when it comes to conversion so the client normally agrees to an equivalent in USD and pays to paypal or to my local account, where the bank takes the conversion part. Since there is this option of receiving the payments in other currencies as an equivalence to €uro there would be no problem, but if the client does not understand this despite due explanation and plays dead duck and still pays the old conversion value in USD where USD lost about 19% against €uro lately. Meaning generally I am doing precisely the same €uro = USD when I quote and or enter a contract, where there has not however been a clause price agreed at the time of agreement or at the time of payment considering the currency fluctuations. It has obviously be the value at the time of payment, because I am still leaving my translation over a substantial period of time at the disposal of the client. Best regards, Brandis


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