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Off topic: Elephant Poo Paper - a new organic form of paper
Thread poster: Niraja Nanjundan
Niraja Nanjundan  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:11
German to English
Nov 25, 2008

Have a look:

http://www.elephantpoopaper.com

A novel idea and a good way to save trees and forests!


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:41
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Oh my! Nov 25, 2008

Honestly I think this is a waste of elephant poo: wouldn't it be a lot better to use the poo as a fertilizer to grow trees? That would help climate change.

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Niraja Nanjundan  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:11
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
No, it's not a waste... Nov 25, 2008

Tomás Cano Binder wrote:

Honestly I think this is a waste of elephant poo: wouldn't it be a lot better to use the poo as a fertilizer to grow trees?


....I'm sure there's enough of it to use both as fertiliser and to make paper!

Seriously though, I think what's important is that people are thinking of alternative ways to make products that usually lead to the depletion of natural resources. In the case of paper, that would be the degradation of forests. I don't think this kind of enterprise could ever replace mainstream paper production, and it probably won't, but I think it's an interesting concept and one could probably think about working along similar lines in the future. I know that other types of natural fibres are also used in making handmade paper.


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irina savescu  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 23:41
English to Romanian
well Nov 25, 2008

if you can use if for a Valentine gift...
http://www.elephantpoopaper.com/press.html

The emperor Vespasian supposedly said pecunia non olet.
I suppose the same can be said for paper. As long as the elephants don't mind it it's ok.


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ST Translations
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:41
French to English
Don't poo poo it Nov 25, 2008

If it saves trees, why not?

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Parrot  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:41
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
I took a course in handmade paper once Nov 25, 2008

using Japanese and Chinese methods, and after certain pulping periods (above all, when using rags) I can assure you certain smells don't make much of a difference. (Supposedly, you get finer loose fiber this way). Hence, the stomach of any respectable ruminant may be a sufficiently good candidate to work as a pulping machine.

The recommendation for a lack of cellulose in the mixture was to add toilet paper. Er... unused? Naturally, we all used clean TP, but in theory... anyway, we were informed that it took years to become a true papermaking sensei. The dwindling number of these masters has prompted Japanese authorities to list them as "repositories of the national heritage", in line with the oriental view of artistic value contained in a.) objects; b.) techniques; and c.) the acknowledged masters thereof. (Think about it, in the west you have to die to be a great master, and the technical component is left for humble researchers and restorers to rediscover).


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:41
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Lack of knowledge of modern papermaking? Nov 25, 2008

Niraja Nanjundan wrote:
Seriously though, I think what's important is that people are thinking of alternative ways to make products that usually lead to the depletion of natural resources. In the case of paper, that would be the degradation of forests.


To be very honest, I think that this impression that papermaking destroys forests is probably caused by a lack of knowledge about how paper is actually manufactured. I sincerely encourage everyone to learn more about industrial paper production. Two facts that are generally unknown about papermaking are:

1. The plants and processes are devised, managed, and tuned for one specific kind of wood: logs with the same size, same density, same species. A paper plant does not accept any wood that grows in a forest, and using just any wood (as present in natural forests) destroys the stability of the process and creates big financial issues at the plant. So paper pulp plants don't use wood from natural forests.

2. Pulp plants need a continuous supply of wood from nearby sources, as transport costs are very high (wood is heavy). So what they do is, well before the plant is built, the pulp company purchases a piece of land in a suitable area and plants them with the species they plan to process at the plant. The divide the land in lots in the same number of the quantity of wood they plan to process, and plant the land in lots year after year. Only some years before the first lot is ready for harvest they build the plant. At the same time the plant is ready for work, the first lot contains trees suitable for pulp making. The harvest the wood and then replant the land immediately. The other lots continue to grow.

So, astonishing enough for many people, pulp plants actually create forests and don't destroy natural forests. Natural wood is just no use for them!

And astonishing enough, many people blame pulp production for the destruction of rain forests... when a rain forest is made of dozens of wood species in a million different sizes... completely uninteresting for a pulp plant.

So I insist: blaming pulp production for the destruction of forests is simply the result of not knowing how pulp and paper companies work in this century!


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J Chae  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 16:41
English to Korean
+ ...
The way paper industry works... Nov 25, 2008

Tomás Cano Binder wrote:
So, astonishing enough for many people, pulp plants actually create forests and don't destroy natural forests. Natural wood is just no use for them!

And astonishing enough, many people blame pulp production for the destruction of rain forests... when a rain forest is made of dozens of wood species in a million different sizes... completely uninteresting for a pulp plant.

So I insist: blaming pulp production for the destruction of forests is simply the result of not knowing how pulp and paper companies work in this century!


Before jumping to the conclusion, Tomas, I would like to suggest you to listen more closely to what environmentalists say about paper industry. What you know is correct, but only halfway. Paper industries are destroying natural forests to give way to their pulp farming, to build transportation roads hence irreparably harming the surrounding flora and fauna habitats.

The expansion of the pulp industry and its release of polluting compunds in some region causes a major impact and imposes a serious threat to the remaining natural ecosystem. To make matters worse, unlawful activites are being carried on such as illegal logging and harvesting, to maximise the industry's profit regardless of the damage it would do to our planet.

There's a reason to recycle paper.

[Edited at 2008-11-25 19:53 GMT]


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Niraja Nanjundan  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:11
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, J Chae Nov 26, 2008

J Chae wrote:
There's a reason to recycle paper


Exactly. And I agree with the rest of your post too.


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:41
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Please listen to both parts Nov 26, 2008

(Sorry for the long reply! I just have to explain.)

J Chae wrote:
Before jumping to the conclusion, Tomas, I would like to suggest you to listen more closely to what environmentalists say about paper industry. What you know is correct, but only halfway. Paper industries are destroying natural forests to give way to their pulp farming, to build transportation roads hence irreparably harming the surrounding flora and fauna habitats.

I do listen to both parts, have seen many planted forests. It is very bold and incorrect to say that paper industries destroy natural forests to make room for their plantations. It's simply not true. Just another striking, moving statement made in some cozy office in some big city. Just publicity. Just more end-of-the-world-is-approaching stuff, I reckon.

Let's go to the facts: In all cases I know (I don't trust anyone, so I try to research myself on these matters), a vast majority of forests for pulpmaking were created on grasslands or on hilly areas that were logged many decades or even centuries ago, not by paper industries, but by timber or shipmaking industries. It is possible that some forest was illegaly destroyed somewhere to make a forest for pulpmaking, but compared to the vast surfaces that are now forests again thanks to the paper industry, it's just unfair to say that paper making globally destroys forests.

To me, it's just a decision of whether you prefer to see grass or a forest in these areas, because no "natural forest" will grow in those areas unless someone takes action and plants there for some purpose. Governments are not particular interested in the matter and very rarely spend a dollar in creating "natural forests" these days, no matter how much they boast about their environmental efforts!!!

J Chae wrote:
The expansion of the pulp industry and its release of polluting compunds in some region causes a major impact and imposes a serious threat to the remaining natural ecosystem. To make matters worse, unlawful activites are being carried on such as illegal logging and harvesting, to maximise the industry's profit regardless of the damage it would do to our planet.

Again in this case, I firmly believe you don't know how modern pulp plants work! I have heard these statements many times, and they are based in practices dating to 40-50 years ago and discontinued a very long time ago. But environmentalists keep using the same arguments, for reasons I just cannot grasp. I strongly encourage you (and everyone) to make an effort and schedule a visit a pulp plant today. See for yourself!

J Chae wrote:
There's a reason to recycle paper.

Indeed. I never said anything against recycling paper? Or did I? What I don't think makes sense is to recycle animal manure to produce paper. It's just a waste and just a naïvety for the rich world. This manure would be much more useful in many ways if used as a fertilizer!!

AND, where do you think the disinfectant used in the process will go? Do people making this poo paper have water treatment plants? Pulp plants have them, and very effective ones actually.


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Nesrin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:41
English to Arabic
+ ...
I want some! Nov 26, 2008

Niraja Nanjundan wrote:

Have a look:

http://www.elephantpoopaper.com

A novel idea and a good way to save trees and forests!


My first reaction was "no way!" but looking at the process and the delightful products has changed my mind.
And apparently, they have competition in this blooming industry:
http://www.poopoopaper.com/pootique.html
http://www.elliepoopaper.co.uk/

[Edited at 2008-11-27 10:16 GMT]


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:41
English to German
+ ...
Me too! Nov 26, 2008

I love specialty papers.

My absolute favorite was a line of stationery called "Old Money" by Crane's. Unfortunately, it is now discontinued. The paper was made entirely from recycled U.S dollar bills. According to their website, instead of trying to get the dark ink out of the bills, which would have caused a solid waste problem itself, Crane left the ink in, giving the paper the color of money. Each ream of Old Money contained nearly $15,000 worth of shredded bills.


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Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:41
Italian to English
+ ...
fertiliser Nov 26, 2008

Tomás Cano Binder wrote:

What I don't think makes sense is to recycle animal manure to produce paper. It's just a waste and just a naïvety for the rich world. This manure would be much more useful in many ways if used as a fertilizer!!



Without getting into the rights and wrongs of the paper industry, about which I don't know enough to comment, I just wanted to point out to Tomas that one of the by-products of the elephant dung paper-making process is actually liquid fertiliser, as reported here:
http://www.elephantpoopaper.com/making2.html


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Charlotte Merton  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 22:41
Swedish to English
Amused Ellie Poo user Nov 26, 2008

I am a happy user of Ellie Poo paper, made by the Exotic Paper Company (http://www.elliepoopaper.co.uk); the first business user in Sweden, apparently.

I got several reams of different weights (posted) direct from the mill, and have used it for all my office stationery, including my business cards. A source of much amusement, and several clients have gone out of their way to comment on the fact that they like having a 'pooey invoice'.

In my experience it's really useful paper with a good weight and soft finish that feels far more expensive than it really is. A plus is that it can be used in all kinds of printers and presses. Given that we all need to use paper sometimes, I can warmly recommend it; I spent a great deal of time reading up on which paper had the worst environmental impact, and in the end plumped for Ellie Poo because I felt the balance between proper use of resources and environmental costs was right for me.

An added extra, as I found out at a recent conference, is Ellie Poo's immense popularity with bored small children as well as bored parents/delegates. Someone even came back to my stand to get another business card because, quote, 'baby ate up the last one', which made me glad I chose a printing firm who use 'happy' ink.

I have no association with the manufacturers, by the way! Oh, and I gave up on moose poo paper, made in Sweden, because they don't produce it in 'office-ready' finishes and quantities. Yet.

[Edited at 2008-11-26 10:26 GMT]


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:41
English to German
+ ...
Charlotte, you just made my day! Nov 26, 2008

Charlotte Merton wrote:

'baby ate up the last one'


I am still giggling...

Thanks!


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