| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Off topic: Michael Moore's Sicko Thread poster: Paola Dentifrigi
|
|---|
| The situation in Quebec, Canada | Sep 10, 2007 |
First off, I would like to clarify that what I am going to say applies to Quebec, and even though the situation is more or less the same all over Canada, there are sometimes striking differences because health care matters are managed at the provincial level.
In Canada, we have universal health care provided by the government. There are differences in each province and territory (waiting lists, costs, etc.), but universal health care is present all over Canada. This means that by pa... See more First off, I would like to clarify that what I am going to say applies to Quebec, and even though the situation is more or less the same all over Canada, there are sometimes striking differences because health care matters are managed at the provincial level.
In Canada, we have universal health care provided by the government. There are differences in each province and territory (waiting lists, costs, etc.), but universal health care is present all over Canada. This means that by paying our taxes, we get basic health care at virtually no cost. However, in practice, it isn't as bright as it may seem, or as Mr. Moore seems to think. A simple doctor's visit is free of charge as long as you have the provincial health insurance card (all citizens, landed immigrants and most foreign students and workers have this). Seeing a specialist at a hospital is also free (unless the health issue is a reproductive or esthetic one). Because of this, many people who have no reason to go to the doctor's visit the doctor. The result is that doctors are overwhelmed, so people with blood clots and busted peritonites have to sometimes wait six or even in some cases twelve hours at the emergency before they are seen by a doctor. Not only is this very annoying, but in certain cases, it is dangerous. As for surgery, the more complicated and life threatening surgeries have such long waiting lists that anything called transplant can take several years before the person even gets an appointment - and the appointment is often only for the following year. A person who badly needs a liver is most likely to die before they get any care.
In Quebec, there is practically no way to have a family doctor - once again, this can be reasonably blamed on people who keep the doctors busy for too long without having a genuine reason, like many old ladies who feel lonely who visit the doctor each week just so they have some kind of routine. They often visit with a simple cold - there is no prescription medicine yet to treat this, so the doctor can't help. Because of this, most people don't have a medical file - they have bits and pieces here and there, but no doctor ever gets a complete picture of an individual's health, and this sometimes leads to disaster.
As for private insurance, I am not aware that older women have to pay significantly more than younger men. However, anybody who wants to pay a good price for their medication, have access to a semi-private hospital room in case of emergency or get glasses without ruining their finances has to get private insurance. As a freelancer, it's the best choice. However, if your spouse has group insurance at their work, they can put you on it, so for a very low price, you can benefit from it as well. This is the best. Otherwise, if a freelancer gets private private insurance, it can cost hundreds of dollars per month, which does put a financial strain on healthy people who are not likely to take advantage from it for a long time.
We also have medication insurance that all residents have to pay for - it costs around $600 per year and is obligatory. Depending on the type of medication you buy, you can get up to 75% off the regular price with this, although this is rare.
To finish, I find that having a universal health care system is great, but the fact that visits to the doctor's are free puts an unnecessary strain on the health care system. This is about to be remedies, however, with amodrating ticket that will be applied soon, which is a great idea. It will most likely be $20. This should reduce the number of unnecessary visits, and provided that the money will be reinjected into the system, it will probably help fund the areas of health care that are the most inderfinanced. Hopefully, more people will have access to a family doctor and people needing transplants will get them before it's too late.
I increasingly appreciate being healthy...
But, as they say in my neck of the woods, the grass is always greener at the neighbour's. Same difference
[Edited at 2007-09-10 04:12] ▲ Collapse
| | | |
Mary Catherine Brix wrote:
Liliana, Just a quick question...Don't people pay taxes in Italy? And don't you pay at least some charge when you visit the doctor or ER? And don't you pay a daily fee when in hospital.
Catherine
Yes in Italy we pay taxes as in any other country, but the public health system is supported by the State (with part of our taxes). So if you stay in a public hospital all the expenses are virtually paid by the State. I have never been hospitalized in my whole life, thank God, but both my parents were and, I repeat, they never, ever paid a penny.
In Italy, when we go see our general practitioner (family doctor or physician, however you call him/her) we never pay anything, in the US you are required to pay a visit fee which varies between $ 10.00 (if you are with HMO) to $ 40.00 (if you are with a PPO plan). Need the ER? no fee in Italy, hefty fees in the US (as stated earlier with my unfortunate case of a cut finger, even if I have insurance).
What if I didn't have insurance when I went to the ER here in the US? I would have paid (and I have just looked at my insurance papers with the breakdown of the quotes of what was covered by my insurance and what was supported by me) about $900.00 (my insurance plan in fact covers 50% of the ER costs, I pay the other 50%).
My father who lives in Italy recently had to have his family doctor come visit him at home for he was not feeling well. She came, visited him, gave him a shot, gave him some prescriptions and left. Did he have to pay for a home visit? Not a penny. In Italy when summoned, family doctors must come visit you at home. I have no idea how much you'd be charged in the US to receive a home visit from your doctor, if they everdo it (probably they just tell you to go to the ER or to drag yourself to their studio).
Here are a few letters written by other Italians about their personal experiences with the US healthcare system (taken from the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera. The articles are in Italian, sorry):
http://sitesearch.corriere.it/engineDocumentServlet.jsp?docUrl=/documenti_globnet5/mondo_corriere/Italians/2004/10/30/07041030.xml&templateUrl=/motoriverticali/italians/risultato.jsp
http://sitesearch.corriere.it/engineDocumentServlet.jsp?docUrl=/documenti_globnet5/mondo_corriere/Italians/2006/04/28/05060428.xml&templateUrl=/motoriverticali/italians/risultato.jsp
http://sitesearch.corriere.it/engineDocumentServlet.jsp?docUrl=/documenti_globnet5/mondo_corriere/Italians/2006/04/11/10060411.xml&templateUrl=/motoriverticali/italians/risultato.jsp
Bottom line: I'm not saying that in Italy the Health System is heaven on earth, I'm just stating the differences between the 2 systems. As I am a legal resident of the US now, I have accepted to play by the rules, I got my own health insurance, I pay whatever I have to pay and go along with my life.
I can't help, though, thinking about the future, when I am 60 or 70, retired and in need of more health care. At that age if you are not under Medicare and have a personal insurance, you will end up paying about $300-400 a month only to be insured, because the older you get, the more you pay in insurance.
That makes me feel really uncomfortable.
[Edited at 2007-09-10 05:50]
| | | | | Liliana, thanks for your reply | Sep 10, 2007 |
I thought healthcare systems were more similarly organized in the EU countries. I see that they are not. Despite paying heavy taxes and social fees, we are required to pay for visits to a GP and the ER (between 15 and 20 USD).
And despite payment practices on top of high taxes, we do have lines. A friend of mine - Swedish, age 42 - broke her leg when she slipped on the stairs of the daycare after dropping off her daughter. She was taken to the hospital where she was left to wait o... See more I thought healthcare systems were more similarly organized in the EU countries. I see that they are not. Despite paying heavy taxes and social fees, we are required to pay for visits to a GP and the ER (between 15 and 20 USD).
And despite payment practices on top of high taxes, we do have lines. A friend of mine - Swedish, age 42 - broke her leg when she slipped on the stairs of the daycare after dropping off her daughter. She was taken to the hospital where she was left to wait over 2 days in the reception area of the ER. Her condition was deemed to be not life threatening. They did discover cancer after taking x-rays, a not totally surprising discovery given that she'd had a bilateral mastectomy 18 months earlier.
I think you'll find that anyone who is not a citizen of a EU country or who is not registered in the welfare system of that country pays astronomical amounts. Take for instance the jockey visiting from the U.S. who was kicked by a horse, spent a day and a half waiting in the ER before being taken for x-rays and was charged SEK 27,000 (almost USD 4,000) to be told he had cracked rib, not much they could do about it.
I think it's imperative that these issues are brought to light but I don't think any one system has a perfect solution. As Viktoria says, lack of fees or low fees means people who are not in a life-or-death situation go to emergency rooms (children with ear infections are a major group in Sweden), and in countries with high taxes, the citizens do tend to believe they are entitled to mistreat the system. I could throw a camera up on my shoulder and document all types of atrocities any where in Europe. Piece of cake. Statistics reveal that here, in a country of 9 million, 14,000 die every year from maltreatment in the healthcare system. I shudder to think what the equivalent figure for all of Europe is - every year. Sensational journalism is easy. Presenting a solution that works is a challenge.
Just some thoughts from someone who forks out over 60% of her earnings in taxes and social fees... ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Is France a paradise? | Sep 10, 2007 |
I was originally going to say no, France isn't the paradise that Mr. Moore claims it to be (I saw a clip but not the whole film) but after having read your comments I'm changing my mind.
I live in France and have private health insurance, although this is not compulsory- my husband has none. I pay €22.50. This covers everything, including covering my gynaecologist's fees, which are double what the government recommends. They will even pay for crowns, give me money towards glasses ... See more I was originally going to say no, France isn't the paradise that Mr. Moore claims it to be (I saw a clip but not the whole film) but after having read your comments I'm changing my mind.
I live in France and have private health insurance, although this is not compulsory- my husband has none. I pay €22.50. This covers everything, including covering my gynaecologist's fees, which are double what the government recommends. They will even pay for crowns, give me money towards glasses etc.
I do have to pay €1 to see a doctor, but the daily hospital fee is reimbursed by my health insurance. Apparently, as of next year I will also have to pay €0.50 for medication. I was originally horrified at this news as I currently have to take quite a lot of medication regularly, but after having seen what some of you have to pay, I'm feeling quite relieved.
So thank you for this post, I hadn't realised how good things were here!
[Edited at 2007-09-10 07:25] ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| according to statistics | Sep 10, 2007 |
, If I am not mistaken, the US has the most expensive health care system in the world.
From what those of you who live there are saying, it seems like the system needs a major overhaul?
No system is perfect, a public health system will, in most cases, generate waiting lists.
On the Norwegian system (Michael was here, but decided against showing our system - because nobody will believe it, according to the press here)
The system is paid for mosty by t... See more , If I am not mistaken, the US has the most expensive health care system in the world.
From what those of you who live there are saying, it seems like the system needs a major overhaul?
No system is perfect, a public health system will, in most cases, generate waiting lists.
On the Norwegian system (Michael was here, but decided against showing our system - because nobody will believe it, according to the press here)
The system is paid for mosty by taxes, everyone pays around 10% of their taxable income for healthcare and future pension. In addition, you pay a fee for outpatient treatments. Hospitalization is free.
Everyone has their own primary care doctor. You do have the option to refuse, but very few people do.
I am one of those primary care physicians.
I have no waiting list to speak of, the basic fee for a consultation is 15 EUR for the patient to pay - extras in some cases, never more than about 30 EUR altogether.
Fees for ER attendance out of office hours is slightly higher but not much. Same for a specialist consultation in hospital.
The waiting list to see a specialist is up to 12 weeks, more in some cases (notably psychiatry and sometimes orthopaedics, where the waiting lists may be up to 4-6 monnths).
This does of course not apply to emergencies.
Health care costs money, no matter how you provide it. Insurance companies are out to make more money for themselves, no wonder why this is more expensive.
And a system where the medical staff gets more money if they give the patients unnecessary treatment sounds like a real nightmare.
Hopefully most of us have higher ethics than that, but the temptation should not be there in the first place.
The patient's needs - not his wallet or other economic considerations, should decide the care (s)he gets.
[Edited at 2007-09-10 08:08]
[Edited at 2007-09-10 08:11] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Paola Dentifrigi 
Italy
Local time: 13:42
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | The meaning of "free" | Sep 10, 2007 |
Mary Catherine Brix wrote:
In my experience, you get nothing for nothing and the chance of getting healthcare for nothing is pretty slim.
We do pay for healthcare - through our taxes. I guess the opinion "I get nothing if I do not pay" is what hampers the development of a universal healthcare system.
Cheers
Paola
| | | | | A US example | Sep 10, 2007 |
To give an example of costs:
Back in my college days in Pennsylvania, I gave blood and then went to a diner. While waiting for my food I got very dizzy and needed to lay my head down for a while on the table. If I hadn't been alone, a friend could have probably explained the situation to the waitress and they'd have given me a glass of orange juice until the world stopped spinning.
Alas I was alone, the waitress panicked and called an ambulance.
I was charged 100 Dollars... See more To give an example of costs:
Back in my college days in Pennsylvania, I gave blood and then went to a diner. While waiting for my food I got very dizzy and needed to lay my head down for a while on the table. If I hadn't been alone, a friend could have probably explained the situation to the waitress and they'd have given me a glass of orange juice until the world stopped spinning.
Alas I was alone, the waitress panicked and called an ambulance.
I was charged 100 Dollars for each mile the ambulance drove to the hospital. What did they do at the hospital? They gave me some juice and an 8 Dollar aspirin.
I live in France where I hear the media protesting how France is made to look like a paradise, and everyone complains that it's not good enough.
Well, if my father in the US hadn't gotten ill with a series of sinus infections and allergies, then my parents would still have their retirement money. So, now they're both 62 and cannot retire because they only have enough to live on for 3 years.
Were they responsible and thought of the future with their savings? They sure did. But it wasn't enough. It's disgusting. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Paola Dentifrigi
Italy
Local time: 13:42
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Far from perfect, but... | Sep 10, 2007 |
I don't want to say Italian healthcare is perfect. Well, actually is not!
My sister the other day went to a local practice and saw 2 nurses doing their manicure instead of working and a doctor just strolling around.
When I was 14 I had a motorbike accident, there was no helmet then, I badly injured my head and I was left for 1 hour in the hall.
It was on a Saturday, there was no doctor, the nurses were smoking on the door. I was just a scared kid and everybody ignored me. Not e... See more I don't want to say Italian healthcare is perfect. Well, actually is not!
My sister the other day went to a local practice and saw 2 nurses doing their manicure instead of working and a doctor just strolling around.
When I was 14 I had a motorbike accident, there was no helmet then, I badly injured my head and I was left for 1 hour in the hall.
It was on a Saturday, there was no doctor, the nurses were smoking on the door. I was just a scared kid and everybody ignored me. Not even a word.
But all this has to do with a nurse/doctor willingness to work, with their deontology, not money. I know I can fall ill and be treated by a bad or a good doctor, that I can call an ambulance and have it in 5 or 30 minutes, but if someone asked me if I’d feel safer with a private system I’d say no and no again for the reasons I saw in the film and those expressed so far in this forum.
A universal healthcare system is like democracy: it is not perfect, but I guess it is the best thing discovered so far.
Paola ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| 2 Spanish-speaking countries... | Sep 10, 2007 |
Hi,
Very interesting thread. I have not seen the film yet, but this thread alone has been quite enlightening about all these different health systems.
I am originally from Panama, but I lived in the USA as a college student and then I moved to Europe, first to Spain and then to Germany (though I am actually "half-way" between these 2 countries), so I have seen a certain "variety" in terms of health care systems.
But I will focus on Panama and Spain.
<... See more Hi,
Very interesting thread. I have not seen the film yet, but this thread alone has been quite enlightening about all these different health systems.
I am originally from Panama, but I lived in the USA as a college student and then I moved to Europe, first to Spain and then to Germany (though I am actually "half-way" between these 2 countries), so I have seen a certain "variety" in terms of health care systems.
But I will focus on Panama and Spain.
In Panama, I never had any major problems, but probably like in a lot of places from Latin America, the public health system can be chaotic, but functional enough to get treatment if you get ill. Still, most people who can afford it tend to pay for private health insurance, obviously to have more (though not necessarily better, as Paola mentioned) options.
In Panama you actually have 2 public health systems, one financed with the traditional Social Security taxes (but in which you still have to pay for some medicines, for example) and one that is totally "public" (state-financed).
In the latter case, it means hospitals where people don't have to "pay" for the services themselves, but they have to pay for most of the medical products needed for their service; for example, the serums. But I don't think in this kind of hospitals they would not accept a really poor patient who needed treatment. I know of at least one case where this didn't happen.
When I moved to Spain, after years of living in this country, I had a major accident, where I broke my hip (actually, my pelvis) in three parts.
Some people in Spain complain about the quality of the Social Security system and its services, probably with very good reason in some cases, but after the accident I had, I can say that at least when it happened I was lucky to have fallen in the hands of the services of the Spanish Social Security system.
The complex (and painful.... ) operation and the whole treatment I had to go through was truly professional, and I had a team of specialists who checked (first daily and then weekly) my progress till the day I fully recovered.
Of course, I had no "private" room nor the usual "luxuries" you can get in a private insurance situation, but for me it was obviously more important to recover than to have a pretty room.
And this was all covered with the Social Security taxes I paid every month. I know the health system is changing a bit now in Spain, because now some areas are in the hands of the local autonomy authorities, but still, I believe the system is quite functional in general.
"Health" wishes,
Ivette ▲ Collapse
| | | | | A perfect-world scenario | Sep 10, 2007 |
Allow me to share an experience I had 18 years ago. I was visiting Spain for a few weeks with my son, then 3, daughter, then 1½ and their father. In the candy section of the department my daughter, who was holding her father's hand, decided to throw a hissy fit when we said she couldn't have candy. She dropped and twisted and the angry yelling was cut short immediately. She went pale and clammy and stopped moving. I picked her up, she was silent. I knew something had happened so I decided to ge... See more Allow me to share an experience I had 18 years ago. I was visiting Spain for a few weeks with my son, then 3, daughter, then 1½ and their father. In the candy section of the department my daughter, who was holding her father's hand, decided to throw a hissy fit when we said she couldn't have candy. She dropped and twisted and the angry yelling was cut short immediately. She went pale and clammy and stopped moving. I picked her up, she was silent. I knew something had happened so I decided to get help. I walked out of the department store thinking I'd grab a taxi. Instead, a police car was immediately outside the exit, so I went up to ask where the nearest hospital was. The police man told me to get in and they drove at break-neck speed, sirens blaring to the hospital. They called in to report that we were en route.
My daughter and I were met by a nurse and doctor who led us into a corridor. The doctor listened to what had happened. She got a toy and held it for my daughter to take. She didn't move. The doctor then moved very quickly and did something to my daughter. She then held out the toy and my daughter streched out her arm to take it. Her dislocated shoulder was back in place. The doctor patted her head and told me I could leave. I went to the exit and the police car was still there, waiting to take me back to the department store. I filled in no forms. I paid nothing. I did say thank you. Many times. The entire event, police ride and all, took about 45 minutes.
Now, if we can just convince doctors and nurses, medical equipment manufacturers and pharmaceutical companies, researchers and scientists, property owners and power providers, translators and interpreters, technicians and maintenance personnel, and every one else to work for free, we can provide free healthcare.
Or what about if everyone just paid their taxes. If the biggest indoor sport - tax planning or tax evasion, take your pick - wasn't so popular.
We don't live in a perfect world. There are no perfect solutions. There are however immensely generous people who on an everyday basis give of themselves and their services. That's the root of good healthcare. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | UK National Health Service (NHS) | Sep 10, 2007 |
Williamson wrote:
With regard to health insurance, the E.U. is a good place to be... Although the depicted image of the N.H.S does not corresponds with reality (waiting lists).
Quote of an acquaintance of my mother, who made the American dream come true (became millionaire) The U.S. is for the healthy and the (very) wealthy. So, you'd better stay where you are.
My personal experience of the NHS: I broke my pelvis falling off a horse (I'm a lousy rider) and had to spend 6 weeks in traction in a London NHS hospital some years ago, followed my months on crutches with outpatient therapy. The nursing staff were kind and as attentive as they had time to be, but were appallingly overworked. It was extremely hard to get to talk to a consultant or doctor and on the rare occasions when one passed through the ward accompanied by a court of acolytes (medical students?), they were uninformative and arrogant - possibly overworked too.
It was free "at point of reception", because it is a State system, paid for out of taxes and national insurance contributions. I was sent to hospital at once, as I was an emergency, but if I'd needed, for example, a hip replacement or some other pre-planned operation or treatment, I'd have had to wait months or even years to be seen.
Since then, many UK hospitals have developed the ghastly superbug that can make you sicker than if you'd never been to hospital in the first place. I guess experiences vary from place to place, but the system seems to be in a frightful mess. You can't make an appointment to see a GP in advance, only on the same day, and doctors no longer pay house visits, so you have to go to the "surgery" (doctor's office) and wait among the sneezers and coughers, often for an hour or more, before being seen. My own GP is a kind and helpful man, but fortunately I'm rarely ill enough to risk going to see him. I'd do practically anything to avoid spending any time in a British hospital at present, but all this is my personal experience only.
Cheers!
Jenny.
| | | | The Misha
Local time: 07:42
Russian to English
+ ...
| Oh, Michael Moore again ... | Sep 10, 2007 |
Please make no mistake, Michael Moore is a virtual agaent provocateur who uncsrupulously pursues his own best interests, not your or mine. That said, the US healthcare system is in fact extremely messed up for the simple reason that its financing has absolutely nothing to do with the market approach (oh, irony!) Simply put, the consumer of the healthcare services is usually not the person who pays for them - and this begets all kinds of price inefficiencies, lack of transparency and - what is w... See more Please make no mistake, Michael Moore is a virtual agaent provocateur who uncsrupulously pursues his own best interests, not your or mine. That said, the US healthcare system is in fact extremely messed up for the simple reason that its financing has absolutely nothing to do with the market approach (oh, irony!) Simply put, the consumer of the healthcare services is usually not the person who pays for them - and this begets all kinds of price inefficiencies, lack of transparency and - what is worse - waste. Hence the high costs. However, don't you take Michael Moore at face value. Somehow, we all live here and get to see a doctor when we need one, one way or another. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| I'll never go back to the U.S. | Sep 10, 2007 |
Thanks for bringing it up. I love Michael Moore and all his films because he gets us talking about things that other countries can see quite easily about America, but that Americans ourselves are conditioned not to see.
To be fair, Moore slightly exaggerated the affluence in France; an “average” couple brings in about half of the 6000 (or so) Euros-per-month as the couple he showed. I do agree, though, that quality of life is not to be measured in figures, and I quite enjoyed ... See more Thanks for bringing it up. I love Michael Moore and all his films because he gets us talking about things that other countries can see quite easily about America, but that Americans ourselves are conditioned not to see.
To be fair, Moore slightly exaggerated the affluence in France; an “average” couple brings in about half of the 6000 (or so) Euros-per-month as the couple he showed. I do agree, though, that quality of life is not to be measured in figures, and I quite enjoyed his waxing philosophical on vacations, sex and other aspects of the French life.
Although I am a Francophile in general, it is in fact the French health system that shaped my life; it is the reason that I live here.
Eight years ago my French husband was diagnosed with leukemia in the U.S. He had to have a huge amount of testing done in the first few days. In all, four days spent at a hospital there cost around 16,000 dollars. We made a beeline for France so that he could consider treatment. I still think that if we hadn't had the opportunity to come to France, his life would have been much shorter and we would have been in debt for the rest of our lives.
In France he was treated for 4 years, and in that time endured three transplants and endless chemotherapy. He kept his job (with a German firm) and his full salary throughout those four years, although he was totally incapacitated. I can't imagine what we would have done if he had lost his salary. When he died four years ago, it was the worst thing that I could imagine. Luckily my life wasn't further complicated by hospital bills from France. Instead I received a very good life insurance settlement.
In France, every human being has the right to medical treatment, and the small part that they ask you to pay is covered by a "complimentary" insurance. Mine costs around 30 Euros a month. When I lived in America, I was an irresponsible student with no health insurance whatsoever. When you are in your twenties you think nothing can touch you, but it can.
Obviously I stayed on in France, where the system, like any, can always be improved; but, importantly, people certainly aren't afraid of talking about it. Let's be realistic, social charges make up a considerable part of any person's revenues in this country, and often seem to bring us down when we are trying to run a business and stay competitive in the global market... But I, for one, am happy to contribute to this system.
I will also be happy to have children here (maternity leave, vacations spent with my family), have them go to school here (no putting money away privately for their higher education), and enjoy my retirement when the time comes.
For all of you who enjoyed the film, have a look at Spike Lee's film on hurricane Katrina. There are certain resounding truths that the two films have in common and help to break certain taboos. When you have lived your whole life in America, you never even realize that those taboos exist.
[Edited at 2007-09-10 15:29]
[Edited at 2007-09-11 08:11] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | It's a disgusting and terrible injustice! | Sep 10, 2007 |
It's a long story and I apologize, but I'm really upset by this! My brother is a good example of people being hurt by the healthcare system in the US.
Most people buy their health insurance through the company they work for. My brother was not able to find a job for a couple of years, so he couldn't do that. His wife wanted to add him to her insurance through her job, but that would have cost a couple hundred dollars A WEEK and they just could not afford it.
Well about two yea... See more It's a long story and I apologize, but I'm really upset by this! My brother is a good example of people being hurt by the healthcare system in the US.
Most people buy their health insurance through the company they work for. My brother was not able to find a job for a couple of years, so he couldn't do that. His wife wanted to add him to her insurance through her job, but that would have cost a couple hundred dollars A WEEK and they just could not afford it.
Well about two years ago, he started having very severe back pain, he could hardly get out of bed. He went to a doctor and the doctor said he wanted to do X-rays and CAT scans and MRIs and figure out what was wrong - but with no health insurance, that would have cost thousands of dollars and they couldn't afford it. So the doctor gave him pain medication instead.
Around that same time, my brother got very sick. He was always exhausted, lost his appetite, lost a lot of weight, had a lot of unpleasant systems. The doctor just assumed it was side effects of the pain killers and didn't look into it further (after all, he had no insurance to pay for tests). He spent two years feeling miserable, getting sicker and sicker until this past April when he was rushed to the hospital. He had severe pneumonia (his entire left lung and one third of his right lung were not functioning at all) and he was diagnosed with cancer (Hodgkin's lymphoma). That's why he had been so sick for two years. If he had health insurance, he could have gotten tested sooner and they would have found the cancer a lot earlier, giving him a better chance of surviving. But because it was growing in him for 2 years before they found it, it's at a very advanced stage. They tried chemotherapy and it looked like it was working, but the cancer started growing again. Now he needs a bone marrow transplant.
While he spent three weeks in the hospital, his wife was able to fight and fight and fight with the government until he got Medicaid (health insurance funded by the state). That worked out really well, because they NEVER would have been able to pay the medical bills for the hospital stay, the specialist visits, the chemo, the medications (some of which cost several thousand dollars a month, each). But he needs to go outside the state of Michigan for the bone marrow transplant, and the Medicaid will not pay for anything out of state. Fortunately, my sister-in-law just started a new job and they can afford to buy my brother health insurance through her company now. But he won't have that insurance until October. So he has to delay the bone marrow transplant until then. We're talking about a life and death matter, treatment he needs to SURVIVE, and he has to wait until the insurance company decides they'll pay for it. And if they don't wait, my brother and his wife will have a financial burden they will probably never be able to pay off.
Also, my boyfriend was very sick a few years ago and went to the emergency room (he had no insurance at the time). They took his vital signs (temperature, pulse, etc.) and did an X-ray. They sent him home, still sick and in serious pain, with nothing to help him - just a bill for $2000.
I have health insurance, but I pay about $350 a month for it. It's a huge rip off, because on top of that monthly fee, I also have to pay a fee every time I go to a doctor or get any testing done or anything. I'm reasonably healthy and part of me would like to cancel the insurance. I only go to the doctor once a year for a checkup, and it would be cheaper to pay for that myself than put all that money into insurance I never use. But after seeing what my brother went through (and know I'm at risk for the same thing), I'm afraid to. What if something really major happened? I couldn't afford to pay the medical bills if I didn't have insurance!
Maintaining good health and seeking treatment when necessary should be a basic right to all human beings. Instead, it's just another way for the rich to profit even more - at the detriment of the people who need it most. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | From a Physician's Point of View | Sep 11, 2007 |
I saw Sicko when it first came out and it only confirmed what I've been seeing for years. The U.S. health system is one of the worst in the world (once you get sick).
Granted, U.S. hospitals have some of the worlds best technology, with the most highly trained and compensated physicians, nurses and allied health personnel, as well as some of the highest quality medicines in the world.
But I'm talking about the system. Once an American gets sick, they quickly learn... See more I saw Sicko when it first came out and it only confirmed what I've been seeing for years. The U.S. health system is one of the worst in the world (once you get sick).
Granted, U.S. hospitals have some of the worlds best technology, with the most highly trained and compensated physicians, nurses and allied health personnel, as well as some of the highest quality medicines in the world.
But I'm talking about the system. Once an American gets sick, they quickly learn how there really is no system. For-profit insurance companies do not make money by delivering the highest quality medicine available. They make money by delivering the minimum required by law/contract without getting sued (minimizing their "medical losses"). Now this is not the fault of the insurers, they're in business to make money. This is the fault of the selfish gene that says "I don't want to pay for so-and-so's operation." The simple fact is, you have to pool the risk in order to reduce the overall costs. However, people don't see the need to have health insurance when they are healthy. It's not until one gets sick that they realize that they need help.
As Gringos, we've been conditioned for the last 50 years or so to believe that the marketplace will deliver the highest quality at the lowest price. It's the reason we have so much stuff (and man do we have a LOT of stuff). But healthcare really isn't a consumer good, unless you believe in survival of the fittest (richest). Healthcare is a commodity, a commodity that we all need at various unanticipated times in our lives. When a person needs emergency bypass surgery, or a steering wheel removed from their ribcage, they don't get to shop around for the best price. Healthcare costs are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the U.S. (and the new Bush bankruptcy laws mean you'll have to pay them back one way or another no matter what). By essentially spreading out the costs of healthcare over the course of our entire lives (socialized medicine), we eliminate or reduce the impact that illness has on our lives. I'm interested in knowing if any of our Canadian/French/U.K. colleagues have had to sell their home to pay for emergency surgery. Here in the "land of the free" it's very common.
I hear a lot of people here complaining about wait times. Unfortunately, that's the result of having to prioritize cases (triage). Yes, there are a lot of LOL in NAD (little old lady in no apparent distress) that are clogging up the national healthcare systems, but that goes for private insurers as well. Wait times are really proportional to the amount of GDP a country is willing to spend on healthcare. The returns begin to diminish once you get beyond a certain level of basic care. As anyone in healthcare knows, there are busy days and there are quiet days and there is no way to anticipate how it's going to be (and no, a full moon has nothing to do with it, there have been studies on that). One could overbuild and overstaff to reduce wait times, but it's not very cheap to train 20% more personnel, build 20% more hospitals and clinics, or even pay 20% more electricity if it's only going to reduce wait times by 5%.
Unfortunately, illness is unanticipated, and by the time one can make an appointment with their family physician chances are it's already resolved (most diseases cure themselves no matter what the doctor does). Priority is given to emergent cases that put one's life in peril. Everything else has to go on the waiting list, partly because public health officials know this will take a certain percentage of stress off the system, but mostly because we know if you wait a while, take a decongestant, etc., it will go away on its own.
I can tell you right now that the rich in the U.S. have no wait times. None of our senators have wait times. But the reality is no matter how long the waits may be in Canada, Germany, France or even Costa Rica, they aren't as long as the wait times in the U.S. for most patients. You may be able to get an appointment at a "doc in the box" where some overworked, underpaid GP will give you the same thing a pharmacist (chemist) would in the U.K., but try getting an appointment with a specialist under most health insurance. Even worse, if you don't have insurance you will have to wait until you are blue in the face, literally! The uninsured can't even get past the receptionist unless their life is in danger (difficulty breathing, bleeding, chest pain or fracture). Even when they do get in, they are usually just patched up and given an appointment that the emergency personnel know they'll never show up for because they can't afford it. The term is "Treat 'em and street 'em" and it's the level of healthcare most Americans receive.
As a physician, I find it completely unacceptable that the world's richest nation cannot even figure out how to give children basic healthcare, women basic prenatal care, or the elderly (you know, the people that built this place) quality end of life care. It's the main reason I don't bother practicing in the U.S. (though the Mexican system is a whole different type of nightmare). I actually envy the system in Costa Rica. They like to say they are a developing country, but they don't have to wonder how they're going to pay for little Billy's broken arm.
I remain optimistic. The way I see it, the "baby boomers" are getting right into that sweet spot in life where they'll be in the hospital every year for one thing or another but they still won't die. Once they see how healthcare costs are eating up all their pensions, savings, property, and even their grocery budget (coumadin or cauliflower? you feel lucky?), they'll be screaming for socialized medicine like the rest of the civilized world. In the meantime, I'll go elsewhere for healthcare (like so many of my paisanos that come to Tijuana for healthcare).
I love my country, but I think it's time we start seeing other people.
SaludoZ! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Michael Moore's Sicko | CafeTran Espresso | You've never met a CAT tool this clever!
Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer.
Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools.
Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free
Buy now! » |
| | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
