| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Poll: Do you print your translation to have a final review before delivery? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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Kunik 
Local time: 15:01
English to Latvian
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| Most of the times | May 13, 2008 |
As I am currently in-house, naturally, cost is not an issue, although we do print on both sides and all the paper is recycled. But I also used to print most of the stuff when freelancing (and now, when working from home).
Could it be that it also depends on the language? In my language we have plenty of diacritic signs (ā, č, š, ļ, ī etc.) and sometimes it is not so easy to detect typos.
Besides, I appreciate some time away from the computer. My eyes are much more... See more As I am currently in-house, naturally, cost is not an issue, although we do print on both sides and all the paper is recycled. But I also used to print most of the stuff when freelancing (and now, when working from home).
Could it be that it also depends on the language? In my language we have plenty of diacritic signs (ā, č, š, ļ, ī etc.) and sometimes it is not so easy to detect typos.
Besides, I appreciate some time away from the computer. My eyes are much more valuable than tons of ink.. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Diana Arbiser
United States
Local time: 07:01
English to Spanish
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| I'm getting greener and greener... | May 13, 2008 |
I used to print translations in the past, but stopped doing it for environmental reasons. I can honestly say that it makes absolutely no difference to me, in the percentage of mistakes I catch on the screen, as compared to when I printed the documents.
I am really concerned about the environment and the lots of waste we produce, and even when we can recycle, I really consider it seriously before using any bit of paper.
Part of my two cents for Mother Earth ... See more I used to print translations in the past, but stopped doing it for environmental reasons. I can honestly say that it makes absolutely no difference to me, in the percentage of mistakes I catch on the screen, as compared to when I printed the documents.
I am really concerned about the environment and the lots of waste we produce, and even when we can recycle, I really consider it seriously before using any bit of paper.
Part of my two cents for Mother Earth ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 09:01
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
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| Paper vs Electricity | May 13, 2008 |
Everyone is free to work as they want and I am certainly not advocating waste, but I believe most paper produced today comes from farmed trees (trees grown specifically for paper production) and this is a renewable resource or is a by-product of other production (wood to build homes, etc), while the resources consumed to supply the electricity used to run your computer while editing/proofreading are probably more devastating to the environment.
[Edited at 2008-05-13 23:24]
| | | | Erzsébet Czopyk
Hungary
Local time: 15:01
Member (2006)
Russian to Hungarian
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SITE LOCALIZER | you miss things if you don't print out | May 14, 2008 |
tinageta wrote: As I am currently in-house, naturally, cost is not an issue, although we do print on both sides and all the paper is recycled. But I also used to print most of the stuff when freelancing (and now, when working from home). Could it be that it also depends on the language? In my language we have plenty of diacritic signs (ā, č, š, ļ, ī etc.) and sometimes it is not so easy to detect typos. Besides, I appreciate some time away from the computer. My eyes are much more valuable than tons of ink..
Hi Tinageta, I absolutely agree - plus there is no Hungarian-Latvian dictionary, except a small edition what is not suitable for translation projects.
As we usually translate documents, we make "mirror" translation: all in the target text must be edited is the same way as in the source text. Sometimes very hard to make it, for example, in case from Hungarian to Russian (target can be longer up to 15-18%).
Costs? If strictly protecting the environment, we could throw out all the books and newspapers too. If you think about the trees, please, do not use salt in the winter: the salt kills the trees too. The paper is the smallest factor. In my eyes it is like the Pope could say: we will not use candles in the church anymore, because of of protecting the environment.
sumary: if really need, we print.
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Elin Davies
United Kingdom
Member (2008)
English to Welsh
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| Paper production | May 14, 2008 |
Whilst I may be using electricity to run my computer, a vast amount of electricity has also been used to produce a ream of paper (recycled or virgin), as well as water and quite a bit of chemicals (mercury, chlorine...). On the other hand, I can choose to use a green energy supplier to provide electricity for my computer, but would be hard pressed to find a paper manufacturer that is carbon neutral, and even if I did - wouldn't I still have to go through making the amendments on screen once I wa... See more Whilst I may be using electricity to run my computer, a vast amount of electricity has also been used to produce a ream of paper (recycled or virgin), as well as water and quite a bit of chemicals (mercury, chlorine...). On the other hand, I can choose to use a green energy supplier to provide electricity for my computer, but would be hard pressed to find a paper manufacturer that is carbon neutral, and even if I did - wouldn't I still have to go through making the amendments on screen once I was done?. And whilst paper farms might mean that they are grown and cut in a sustainable fashion, they are encroaching on land that was once pure wild forest, and due to their farmed nature they aren't able to provide the habitats that were part and parcel of the ancient forests that stood before.
I have always hoped that the work I deliver to my clients is as professional as possible, despite my decision not to print a final proof. If you opt out of printing a proof due to lack of time, doesn't this mean that you will rush through the on-screen check, and that possibly this might be why more errors are caught when doing a paper proof than on screen?
This innocent sounding poll seems to have transformed into a very heated debate... ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Reviewing in print is not compatible with translations done using CAT tools | May 14, 2008 |
I know that translators who use the old methods, probably those who started translating back in the age of the typewriter, have a tendency to defend reviewing in print, but I am afraid that this is not feasible anymore as CAT tools are gaining in popularity. Of course, if one only proofreads oneself as opposed to reviewing (reading the target text as opposed to reading both source and target), this may not be an issue - but I consider that a full review necessarily involves side-by-side comparis... See more I know that translators who use the old methods, probably those who started translating back in the age of the typewriter, have a tendency to defend reviewing in print, but I am afraid that this is not feasible anymore as CAT tools are gaining in popularity. Of course, if one only proofreads oneself as opposed to reviewing (reading the target text as opposed to reading both source and target), this may not be an issue - but I consider that a full review necessarily involves side-by-side comparison of source and target.
Because I do mainly technical translation, I also consistently use a CAT tool to do my job, even when I am not required to. Printing a bilingual text can have a huge impact on paper and ink usage (never mind monetary issues - I am mostly concerned by the environment and wasting of resources), but reading the bilingual, segmented text can also be hard on the eyes. When I read my translation on screen, I can display each segment in two distinctive fields - something I cannot do on paper. I therefore find it is easier and more efficient to display source and target on screen.
Also, if I am working on a large document, it is likely that I will be taking breaks before I finish reviewing the entire document. Doing this on hard copy documents can therefore be tricky because then I cannot control and compare different versions (I am a heavy version management user). And let't not forget that there is no search and replace on hard copy. I remember I already came across this term before this section, but where was it? On page 12? Page 46? Page 113?
I find that reading things out loud is a great substitute for reviewing hard copy translations - and this, just like printing translations for reviewing, also doesn't seem to be a widely used method.
[Edited at 2008-05-14 02:29] ▲ Collapse
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CMJ_Trans wrote:
Somehow I feel that the response to this poll answers a lot of my hitherto unaswered questions.
Get real, kids - and get professional.
The fact that a method works better for you doesn't mean that it is the ultimate method and that you are doing things right and that others are doing it all wrong.
If you are looking for answers to those hitherto unanswered questions, perhaps you can look for people who can't be bothered to review their translations in the first place, agencies who don't spend on editing/proofreading and put the blame on the translator, people who impose and people who accept unrealistic deadlines... the list goes on and on. I guess you haven't been searching that hard.
FYI, I am an eagle-eyed translator who spots errors from far, from the rear and in pitch dark - both in print and on screen.
I am sorry, but the tone of your post is a tad bit patronizing.
Who are you calling kids, anyways? Why not tell us to grow up while you're at it?
[Edited at 2008-05-14 03:12]
| | | | Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 16:01
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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| Only when I don't use human editors | May 14, 2008 |
I print after checking on the screen and using Word spellchecker, if I have to send the translation straight to the customer. Otherwise I prefer to use human editors, because reading your own translation is so boring.
Anyway when you read your own text the chances are that you don't spot all errors.
By the way it is astonishing how many texts get published with errors that Word spellchecker and grammer checker would have found automatically!
About the trees: The paper w... See more I print after checking on the screen and using Word spellchecker, if I have to send the translation straight to the customer. Otherwise I prefer to use human editors, because reading your own translation is so boring.
Anyway when you read your own text the chances are that you don't spot all errors.
By the way it is astonishing how many texts get published with errors that Word spellchecker and grammer checker would have found automatically!
About the trees: The paper we translators use is only a small fraction of what our clients use for advertising.
[Bearbeitet am 2008-05-14 03:15] ▲ Collapse
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Just a quick note to say thank you for your contributions!
My method? I sometimes print translations, when I have enough time and to have a final review of the text, as an extra quality control step. Truth be told, I have found mistakes in print, that I had not seen on the screen.
I always like to find a balance, not too much and not so little.
In favor of the environment, I will definitely try the speech software. Thank you for that wonderful suggestion!... See more Just a quick note to say thank you for your contributions!
My method? I sometimes print translations, when I have enough time and to have a final review of the text, as an extra quality control step. Truth be told, I have found mistakes in print, that I had not seen on the screen.
I always like to find a balance, not too much and not so little.
In favor of the environment, I will definitely try the speech software. Thank you for that wonderful suggestion!
Cheers,
Teresa ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I am getting professional... | May 14, 2008 |
CMJ_Trans wrote:
Get real, kids - and get professional. And forget the cost issue. Cutting corners is never good. Do a better job and then you can charge more and cover your costs and beyond...
I sincerely thank you for the advice. Good, from now on we will start printing the 4 million words we translate every year (80% of which is material reused with Trados) and read the 20.000 pages.
In a quick estimate, this will mean an increase of 25% of the time spent on each translation, as we will have to prepare and convert the files to a printable format (most of our work is tag-based). But surely our customers will be happy to pay us 25% more BECAUSE WE HAVE TO BE PROFESSIONAL.
I wonder: should we reassign the reviewers' computers, as they should review only on paper? That will easily compensate the cost of paper, electricity and toner!
[Edited at 2008-05-14 04:57]
| | | | | Ab-so-lu-te-ly | May 14, 2008 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
I know that translators who use the old methods, probably those who started translating back in the age of the typewriter, have a tendency to defend reviewing in print, but I am afraid that this is not feasible anymore as CAT tools are gaining in popularity. Of course, if one only proofreads oneself as opposed to reviewing (reading the target text as opposed to reading both source and target), this may not be an issue - but I consider that a full review necessarily involves side-by-side comparison of source and target.
I entirely agree with your whole statement. Exactly the same situation here, and the same reasons not to print out every document (although we print some). But... are you sure you are a true professional Viktoria?
[Edited at 2008-05-14 04:57]
| | | | | I am more critical of my work when I read it on paper | May 14, 2008 |
Neilmac says "are you mad?' but
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
I proofread/edit the final draft of each document once or twice on screen, then print it out for a third edit (you would be surprised how many things you miss if you proofread on the computer screen).
Though I don't make the time to print out long documents (and I hate to waste the paper and ink), I have definitely found that I am more alert to problems when I read my printed work. It's a different medium, and it makes perfect sense that the brain would react to it differently.
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| Land once occupied by pure wild forest | May 14, 2008 |
Elin Davies wrote:
And whilst paper farms might mean that they are grown and cut in a sustainable fashion, they are encroaching on land that was once pure wild forest, and due to their farmed nature they aren't able to provide the habitats that were part and parcel of the ancient forests that stood before.
After translating and reading my bit about forestry, paper and pulp, the often repeated concept "land once occupied by pure wild forest" really triggers a reaction. Yes, of course the land occupied by man-arranged stands was once occupied by pure wild forest, but in a majority of cases it was occupied by wild forest centuries ago. Think of the UK, France, Spain, Germany... all countries packed with forests as reported at the time of the Roman Empire. How much forest do you see now in these countries? Vasts forests in these countries disappeared well before paper even arrived to Europe.
I don't feel guilty for things I did not do, so I don't feel guilty for the misuse of forests by my ancestors. I think it's quite right that we create forests, for a number of reasons (carbon, erosion, wood as a sustainable commodity and a renewable source of energy, etc). A man-made forest is always better than the bare land left behind by earlier societies in developed countries.
| | | | Satu Ilva
Finland
Local time: 16:01
English to Finnish
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| Question of what you translate and what method you're used to | May 14, 2008 |
I think those who have worked with computers from the start are used to proofreading on the screen. I'm comfortable with it and don't think it makes me any less of a professional that I don't print out everything I translate.
Also, as has been pointed out, some work just isn't suited to printing and this would cover the vast majority of the work I do - processed files such as xml converted to TagEditor's ttx. Printing those out would be absolutely pointless as it would be harder to ... See more I think those who have worked with computers from the start are used to proofreading on the screen. I'm comfortable with it and don't think it makes me any less of a professional that I don't print out everything I translate.
Also, as has been pointed out, some work just isn't suited to printing and this would cover the vast majority of the work I do - processed files such as xml converted to TagEditor's ttx. Printing those out would be absolutely pointless as it would be harder to read in amongst the masses of code that go with the territory than it is on the screen where I can highlight the segment I'm looking at with the software.
I actually have a little laser printer (forget those inkjets that eat ink for breakfast!) and the cost of printing isn't prohibitive but I just don't see the point. Occasionally I do print out parts of texts where I find it easier to compare side by side and want to give my eyes a break from the screen, but only with texts that are in Word or some other suitable format. Recently I did print out lists of TM segments because I was comparing two TMs for a client and it was easier to tick off/correct the matches on paper.
So whatever suits you and the work you do. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nikki Graham
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:01
Spanish to English
| Why is the cost of printing prohibitive? | May 14, 2008 |
I usually print all source documents, even when using Wordfast, as I like to see the proper layout when translating, make notes, see where paragraphs start and finish, etc. I must admit that since using a CAT tool I do not always print out the translated version for revising/checking, especially if it is a technical document. However, if the text needs to read well/is going to be published, etc., then I will clean the document and compare both versions on paper, make the changes in Wordfast and ... See more I usually print all source documents, even when using Wordfast, as I like to see the proper layout when translating, make notes, see where paragraphs start and finish, etc. I must admit that since using a CAT tool I do not always print out the translated version for revising/checking, especially if it is a technical document. However, if the text needs to read well/is going to be published, etc., then I will clean the document and compare both versions on paper, make the changes in Wordfast and clean again.
Paper and ink are business expenses and tax deductible. I either spend my money on making my work easier for me or pay more tax (tough choice!). Ink cartridges can be recyled. There are many charities in the UK that will send you bags you can use for this purpose (for example the Dogs Trust, the Woodland Trust, British Heart Foundation). You can also buy paper from charities (such as the WWF, which is what I do).
http://shop.wwf.org.uk/wwf_stationery/evolve_recycled_printer_paper_saver_pack
I recyle non-confidential documents and shred and compost the rest. In fact, if I didn't add the paper, my compost mix would not be balanced. In the UK, you can get a composter for about £10. They are often subsidised by local councils. ▲ Collapse
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