| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Poll: Do you have your translations proofread by another person before delivery? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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Nikki Graham 
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:04
Spanish to English
| Are we all sure on what these terms mean? | May 18, 2012 |
Oliver Lawrence wrote:
in distinguishing between "a translator" and "a professional proofreader", I'm not attempting to decry the professionalism of translators as proofreaders (on the contrary, many translators make fine proofreaders). What I'm referring to is a specialist target-language proofreader who is not a translator and may not know the source language (or, indeed, any language other than their own).
Oliver, I think I refer to the profession you are describing as a "reviewer" (according to EN 15038), i.e. a person who examines a target text for its suitability for the agreed purpose WITHOUT looking at the source text (on the assumption that this has already been done by the reviser)
| | | | Julian Holmes
Japan
Local time: 14:04
Member (2011)
Japanese to English
| Another good point | May 18, 2012 |
Robert Forstag wrote:
Not a viable option...
...because the profit margin in my language pair does not permit me to pay someone to do it, and I don't know anyone willing to do it for free. In any case, the agencies that are providing me the work can reasonably be expected to provide a second set of eyes to proofread my translations prior to delivery to the end client.
That said, I do carefully proofread my own work.
Again, nicely put, Robert. 
In a lot of cases, bottom-line economic factors just prohibit a "second set of eyes" once-over of what you've done. And, in the translation market here in Japan, it is taken for granted that the agency/outsourcer has in-house checkers or some facility for checking quality before the final delivery to the end-client. Any quality issues are between the translator and the agency, and not between the translator and the end client.
Needless to say, to echo what Robert says, I, too, give what I do a thorough proof so that it meets the customer's requirements and can stand up to the scrutiny of others.
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But I thoroughly check.
Please note that some of us can do this, and others certainly not. People who work inhouse in an agency can all tell you stories about those translators who deliver their first draft file and think that this is perfectly normal.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 07:04
French to English
| End delivery | May 18, 2012 |
Interlangue wrote: Isabelle Brucher wrote:
... " Do you have YOUR translations proofread by another person BEFORE delivery?". So I guess in this case the answer is "no".
As to me, I answered "no" because I proofread my translations myself. There is nothing wrong about that, I think...
I translate in languages and fields I know enough that I do not have to rely on another person's advice. I consider delivery to be to the end-customer. The agency is not the "final" delivery
Except that your contract is with the agency not their customer...
Of course if you know that the agency is going to proofread you then that's great.
Like Nikki, I offer to have another pair of eyes looking at my work but nobody ever takes me up on it because of the extra cost involved.
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For all the reasons mentioned by others
... confidentiality, the cost, and above all, time!
I reckon or know the agencies I work for will have my work checked in some cases, but I do not depend on it.
There are occasions when checking every detail umpteen times will be justified, but in many cases, any self-respecting translator should IMHO be able to deliver a text that is basically fit for purpose, without a proofreader.
Of course two pairs o... See more For all the reasons mentioned by others
... confidentiality, the cost, and above all, time!
I reckon or know the agencies I work for will have my work checked in some cases, but I do not depend on it.
There are occasions when checking every detail umpteen times will be justified, but in many cases, any self-respecting translator should IMHO be able to deliver a text that is basically fit for purpose, without a proofreader.
Of course two pairs of eyes see more than one, and two heads can sometimes come up with more good ideas than one. At times I have been extremely grateful for feedback and chances to improve my own work.
All the same, you will almost certainly get better results from giving one competent translator plenty of time to do the job properly, than you will get from rushing through it and then rushing it past any number of proofreaders. The total time spent on the job may be the same, but there are more opportunities for introducing errors.
If you can't deliver a text free from essential errors and catch the typos, then you are working in the wrong business or the wrong subject area.
Or maybe not spending enough time researching, thinking and checking your own work. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Marina Soldati
Argentina
Local time: 02:04
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Depends on the client | May 18, 2012 |
In the case of texts translated for agencies, they have their own proofreaders; for direct clients, I hire a professional translator as proofreader and include the cost in my per word rate.
Marina
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 01:04
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Only if client pays for it | May 18, 2012 |
If a client requests a separate proofing, I'm happy to involve a colleague, but this is a rare scenario these days.
This question could be addressed to translation agency owners as well. I know for a fact that some of them have eliminated the editor and/or proofreader to cut costs and expect the translator to bear the responsibility.
But I consider myself educated by my more experienced colleagues who have written here about their reasons for not outsourcing the proofre... See more If a client requests a separate proofing, I'm happy to involve a colleague, but this is a rare scenario these days.
This question could be addressed to translation agency owners as well. I know for a fact that some of them have eliminated the editor and/or proofreader to cut costs and expect the translator to bear the responsibility.
But I consider myself educated by my more experienced colleagues who have written here about their reasons for not outsourcing the proofreading of their translations. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rebecca Garber
Local time: 01:04
Member (2005)
German to English
+ ...
But sometimes by a translator and sometimes by a proofreader.
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Nikki Graham wrote: Oliver Lawrence wrote:
in distinguishing between "a translator" and "a professional proofreader", I'm not attempting to decry the professionalism of translators as proofreaders (on the contrary, many translators make fine proofreaders). What I'm referring to is a specialist target-language proofreader who is not a translator and may not know the source language (or, indeed, any language other than their own). Oliver, I think I refer to the profession you are describing as a "reviewer" (according to EN 15038), i.e. a person who examines a target text for its suitability for the agreed purpose WITHOUT looking at the source text (on the assumption that this has already been done by the reviser)
For the purposes of this discussion, I'm thinking of the finished translation as a target-language text in its own right, rather than as the product of a translation process. Books, theses, etc., may be proofread by proofreaders; so, therefore, can translated texts. Call it a review if you like.
| | | | Nikki Graham
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:04
Spanish to English
| Misunderstandings... | May 18, 2012 |
Oliver Lawrence wrote: For the purposes of this discussion, I'm thinking of the finished translation as a target-language text in its own right, rather than as the product of a translation process. Books, theses, etc., may be proofread by proofreaders; so, therefore, can translated texts. Call it a review if you like .
Unfortunately, I don't think that has been understood on the whole, given that most people understand "proofreading" to be the first basic check of a translation after completion, either by the original translator or a second translator.
But my answer is still no. I do not have my translations reviewed or "proofread" by another person, and I would only offer this service to a direct client at an extra charge if they requested it. In an ideal world, books and theses, etc., would be reviewed by an independent expert after the translation process has been completed, but most clients would baulk at the cost and prefer a one-stop solution, presumably keeping their fingers crossed that the product will turn out perfect first time
| | | | | No. Against NDAs and not included in my rate. | May 18, 2012 |
Christine Andersen wrote:
For all the reasons mentioned by others
... confidentiality, the cost, and above all, time!
I reckon or know the agencies I work for will have my work checked in some cases, but I do not depend on it.
There are occasions when checking every detail umpteen times will be justified, but in many cases, any self-respecting translator should IMHO be able to deliver a text that is basically fit for purpose, without a proofreader.
Of course two pairs of eyes see more than one, and two heads can sometimes come up with more good ideas than one. At times I have been extremely grateful for feedback and chances to improve my own work.
I very much agree with Christine on what she is saying.
Myself, I would consider confidentiality to be the strongest consideration against informal proofreading. Cost and time required for this can vary between language pairs and particular projects. Disclosing to third parties any significant portions of a text that your client has entrusted you with, however, goes against confidentiality invariably. Unless you have agreed with the client that such an arrangement is fine by them, of course. NDA or no NDA, I think a translator only needs to put themselves in the shoes of the (especially end-)client. Would you want to have your medical or commercial documents read by people whom you didn't (directly or indirectly) authorise to have access to such documents? And if "smaller" source languages are considered, this becomes even more true.
With that in mind, if I were having my translations proofread by colleagues (like some here have said they do), I would seek to discuss this with the client. Some agencies or end clients might be more than happy for competent proofreading to be provided to them for free, while others might not (because they consider the documents in question to be quite sensitive). On the one hand, such informal proofreading practices could bring legal trouble to a translator. While, on the other hand, there is no need for a translator to underestimate themselves so much. If you have good clients, it is a pretty sure sign that your work is of at least acceptable quality. Agencies normally have their own proofreaders for the odd errors (which are only human), and direct clients should be charged for the service if they wish to receive it.
| | | | Denise DeVries
United States
Local time: 01:04
Spanish to English
+ ...
Of course I proofread my own work before sending it, but I know I'm not perfect.
I always work with agencies so that I know there will be another set of eyes before my work reaches the end client.
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I proofread my translations once or twice, depending on the circumstances.
If my client is an agency that will be hiring a proofreader, twice is plenty. In the United Nations system, I've earned the rank of "self-revising translator." When I know that no one else will see it before it is delivered to the client, I always re-read the translation twice, and sometimes three times.
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