| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Poll: When I speak my second language, my accent Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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John Cutler 
Spain
Local time: 08:32
Spanish to English
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| One definition | Jan 8, 2008 |
BLANGSTED wrote:
Do you mean - no accent?
If an accent is "quite good" - then what type of accent are you talking about?
European, African, Indonesian - og what ??
To me, a quite good accent means that, even though you are speaking a second acquired language, you pronounce it nearly as a native speaker of it would. Most of the time, people wouldn't know it wasn't your first language.
A perfect accent would mean you sound like a native speaker and, although you're speaking your second language, no one knows you're not speaking your first (mother tongue).
I think some people have an inate ability to imitate sounds and they're usually the ones with native sounding accents.
| | | | Angela Dickson (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:32
French to English
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though a bit rusty at present, so my hesitancy gives me away as much as my accent does. I spent time living in northern France - I can fool people from the South (who think I'm from northern France) but not people from the North (who can hear perfectly well that I'm English).
| | | | Parrot
Spain
Local time: 08:32
Spanish to English
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| Second language accents are mutable | Jan 8, 2008 |
especially if the second language was learned after the age of 10.
I started learning French at 16, lived in France and Switzerland for a couple of years and managed to whittle away the "background noise". Then I moved to Spain and started working for the government. (Since I learned Spanish from a Mexican grandmother, I had to whittle that one away too). After six years of this I visited some friends in France and was horrified to learn I was speaking French with a perceptible Span... See more especially if the second language was learned after the age of 10.
I started learning French at 16, lived in France and Switzerland for a couple of years and managed to whittle away the "background noise". Then I moved to Spain and started working for the government. (Since I learned Spanish from a Mexican grandmother, I had to whittle that one away too). After six years of this I visited some friends in France and was horrified to learn I was speaking French with a perceptible Spanish accent.
I tend to agree with Sandro, except that accents have as much to do with a predisposition of the vocalising organs of the mouth as with the ear. In that sense, it's possible to "fake" or assume an accent for a short time (rather like short-term memory. Some actors are particularly gifted in doing this). Children living in foreign countries who are not pressured by the social inhibitions most adults are subject to also tend to acquire the notions of proper speech in the country where they live. They might return to the country of their native language and travel back at a later age, but they're generally easy to spot as having lived there once because -- although they may make mistakes in grammar and vocabulary -- the set of the mouth when speaking the language of the country they are returning to is preserved almost unconsciously. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Interesting question | Jan 8, 2008 |
because a perfect (or quite good...)accent is maybe not quite the same as a good understanding or mastery of a language. It may have something to do with the ear - or the mouth , or the connection between the two.
I lived some years as a student, in an English-speaking country, together with about a hundred other Scandinavians. I noticed they tended to fall into three categories.
Those who adapted to speaking English in a way that made them sound "almost" native after a while, those... See more because a perfect (or quite good...)accent is maybe not quite the same as a good understanding or mastery of a language. It may have something to do with the ear - or the mouth , or the connection between the two.
I lived some years as a student, in an English-speaking country, together with about a hundred other Scandinavians. I noticed they tended to fall into three categories.
Those who adapted to speaking English in a way that made them sound "almost" native after a while, those who - despite a thick accent - had no problems with grammar, vocabulary and making themselves understood, even if you could spot their origin after half a sentence. And those who never cracked it, every time they tried to say something, it was as painful for them as for those who listened.
Must have something to do with the wiring of one's brain? ▲ Collapse
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Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:32
Russian to English
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In memoriam | Accent is one thing, fluency is something else | Jan 8, 2008 |
Having spent about 50 years listening to Russian on radio and television, I am told, when I speak Russian, that my accent is quite good; but as i hardly ever have any occasion to speak it, I am by no means fluent in it.
| | | | Amy Duncan (X)
Brazil
Local time: 03:32
Portuguese to English
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| How about "very good" or "excellent"? | Jan 8, 2008 |
I think my pronunciation falls between "quite good" and "perfect," from what people tell me. If I speak a short time with someone, many times they thin I'm a native, but if I have a long and involved conversation, usually some little thing will slip and they'll catch on.
Amy
| | | | | Gimme a definition | Jan 8, 2008 |
First and foremost, before I am able to cast my vote, I need "second language" clearly defined.
Here is my case:
My NATIVE tongue is Bulgarian and I have an MA in British and American Studies from Sofia University, which comes to testify that my English is nearly perfect.
But the question is: is it my SECOND language? I don't think so. I'd rank it first... among my foreign languages, which btw are English Russian, and Italian.
[Edited... See more First and foremost, before I am able to cast my vote, I need "second language" clearly defined.
Here is my case:
My NATIVE tongue is Bulgarian and I have an MA in British and American Studies from Sofia University, which comes to testify that my English is nearly perfect.
But the question is: is it my SECOND language? I don't think so. I'd rank it first... among my foreign languages, which btw are English Russian, and Italian.
[Edited at 2008-01-08 17:34] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I wish I could speak with a stronger accent! | Jan 8, 2008 |
I've found that speaking my second language without an accent can have serious disadvantages at times. The natives will grumble about foreigners in my presence in a way they never would if they knew I am one, and people sometimes become confused or incensed when I ask for an explanation of what is "obvious" to any child in the country. My partner has lived in Germany far longer than I have and still speaks with a noticeable accent, which is a valuable clue that one might need to be aware of the ... See more I've found that speaking my second language without an accent can have serious disadvantages at times. The natives will grumble about foreigners in my presence in a way they never would if they knew I am one, and people sometimes become confused or incensed when I ask for an explanation of what is "obvious" to any child in the country. My partner has lived in Germany far longer than I have and still speaks with a noticeable accent, which is a valuable clue that one might need to be aware of the cultural divide when communicating. I've been called a liar for claiming to be from elsewhere, and even producing a foreign passport doesn't necessarily settle the matter
If I could make a wish, it would be to speak German with a moderate French accent. I love the way that sounds....
[Edited at 2008-01-08 17:58] ▲ Collapse
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lexical
Spain
Local time: 08:32
Portuguese to English
| accent is as accent does | Jan 8, 2008 |
I was often asked in the USA if I was "foreign" because of my alleged "accent". Well of course, as is well known, British people, especially speakers of RP (Received Pronunciation) do not have accents - only Americans and foreigners have them.
Seriously though, I'm not sure I believe any of you who say your accent in your second language is near perfect, except where the languages are very close, as in Margreet's case. In particular, I think the gulf between the Romance and Germani... See more I was often asked in the USA if I was "foreign" because of my alleged "accent". Well of course, as is well known, British people, especially speakers of RP (Received Pronunciation) do not have accents - only Americans and foreigners have them.
Seriously though, I'm not sure I believe any of you who say your accent in your second language is near perfect, except where the languages are very close, as in Margreet's case. In particular, I think the gulf between the Romance and Germanic families of languages is too large to be bridged - John Cutler is honest about that. Not only have I spent countless years speaking Spanish and Portuguese every day without beginning to approach a native accent but I have yet to meet a Romance speaker who can command a really natural English accent, though some can be very good indeed. ▲ Collapse
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 08:32
Spanish to English
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| Quite good in Spanish | Jan 8, 2008 |
... with a slight Valenciano "deje". Of course, it varies from day to day - I'm just back from my native Glasgow and the effect of 2 weeks there is noticeable already. My problem is that when I go back there, people ask where I'm from, since my accent is a lot softer now than when I came to Spain 20 years ago - probably the result of emulating RP when doing TEFL for several years...
| | | | Nesrin
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:32
English to Arabic
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| Sorry you don't believe us! | Jan 8, 2008 |
lexical wrote:
Seriously though, I'm not sure I believe any of you who say your accent in your second language is near perfect, except where the languages are very close, as in Margreet's case. In particular, I think the gulf between the Romance and Germanic families of languages is too large to be bridged - John Cutler is honest about that.
How good your accent is depends on a combination of factors, only one of which is how close the languages are, as you pointed out.
Speaking for myself, my German accent has come quite close to perfect, certainly not because of how close German and Arabic are (!) but because I started learning German at the age of 3 and stayed in German schools to the very end (two years of which were spent in Germany), then went on to study in Germany for 5 years. Only a very ungifted person would still end up with an Arabic accent after all that!!
So I guess you'll just have to take our word for it!
| | | | Steven Capsuto
United States
Local time: 02:32
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
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| Slight accent but perfectly understandable | Jan 8, 2008 |
When I'm in Spain, people assure me that they understand every word I say. When I've given lectures there, the audiences have laughed at all the jokes and asked intelligent questions based on the content, so obviously I'm communicating well.
I'm told that what gives me away as a foreigner isn't so much my pronunciation as my voice inflection, which is much harder to lose. Well, that and my clothes and how I walk.
When I speak Spanish, especially if I'm in practice, Span... See more When I'm in Spain, people assure me that they understand every word I say. When I've given lectures there, the audiences have laughed at all the jokes and asked intelligent questions based on the content, so obviously I'm communicating well.
I'm told that what gives me away as a foreigner isn't so much my pronunciation as my voice inflection, which is much harder to lose. Well, that and my clothes and how I walk.
When I speak Spanish, especially if I'm in practice, Spaniards often take me for British while Latin Americans take me for Spanish or American.
[Edited at 2008-01-08 20:21] ▲ Collapse
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John Cutler
Spain
Local time: 08:32
Spanish to English
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| Forgot to mention... | Jan 8, 2008 |
neilmac wrote:
... probably the result of emulating RP when doing TEFL for several years...
Thanks Neil, I'd forgotten to mention the RP accent I also used when teaching English.
I have or have had so many; they're starting to crawl out of the woodwork!
| | | | Steven Capsuto
United States
Local time: 02:32
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
+ ...
John Cutler wrote:
Thanks Neil, I'd forgotten to mention the RP accent I also used when teaching English.
You mean they require American and Scottish TEFL teachers to talk like old BBC announcers? How amusing.
[Edited at 2008-01-08 20:30]
| | | | | I don't place particular importance on accent | Jan 8, 2008 |
I assume that my accent is acceptable if people understand me, and acceptable is good enough for me. I never could understand the importance that our lecturers at university placed on acquiring the correct accent, and never achieved a grade above 7 out of 10 for the "accent" exercise. To me, grammatical accuracy and a wide vocabulary, resulting in the ability to communicate at all levels on a wide variety of topics, are so much more important!
Astrid
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