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Transferência bancária da Europa para o Brasil
Thread poster: Paula Borges

Paula Borges  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 04:28
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Nov 14, 2011

Caros colegas,

Mais uma vez, querendo tirar uma dúvida sobre a complexa burocracia brasileira.
Algum de vocês recebe do exterior através de transferência bancária (wire transfer)? Recebi uma proposta de um projeto longo, cujos pagamentos seriam feitos mensalmente através de transferência bancária.

Minhas dúvidas são:
É possível? Sai muito caro?
É muito burocrático? Qual é a documentação exigida?
Demora muito?
Sou correntista do Banco do Brasil e o HSBC, qual seria a instituição mais recomendada?
Seria melhor fazer na conta bancária pessoa física ou jurídica? Se jurídica, como emitir NF?
Se física, como isso seria lançado na declaração?

Agradeço antecipadamente.

Paula


 

Stefan Blommaert  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 08:28
Member (2012)
English to Dutch
+ ...
My experience Nov 14, 2011

Boa noite Paula,

desculpe por responder em Inglês; tenho vergonha do meu Português escrito!

Having lived 6 years in your country and in the beginning thinking that this country was just like the rest of the world, I transferred money on a monthly basis into my Brazilian account (Bradesco and HSBC, at that time). It was an absolute nightmare and a source of gastric ulcers; there were no rules, or at least they changed every month. The charges were NEVER the same, and let us not even talk about the burocracy....waiting for hours at the bank (even though I was at Bradesco Prime and HSBC Premier) and going back several times in order to receive something that was a monthly transfer (pension, coming from the same origin and being EXACTLY the same amount). And of course the ever present resentment and envy that you were receiving money from abroad...

If you want to avoid that, make sure you become a HSBC Premier customer (if you qualify, based on income...after all, Brazil is a wonderful equalitarian country!) and create an account abroad. Have people transfer money into THAT account abroad, and then make use of HSBC's internal system called "Global View" to transfer money into your account in Brazil (you can do that yourself online, without any Brazilian intervention). The only way of getting things done properly is to avoid any kind of Brazilian intervention, and only by using Global View is this is possible.

Am sorry if I am a bit negative, and perhaps it is just because I used to live in the North-East, but my experience was abismal! I now have to smile when I hear Brazilians boast that they have the most advanced banking system in the world....Smile, because I am no longer forced to use it....if I were, I would be crying.

Hope this helps.



[Edited at 2011-11-14 21:31 GMT]

[Edited at 2011-11-14 21:35 GMT]

[Edited at 2011-11-14 21:36 GMT]

[Edited at 2011-11-14 22:24 GMT]


 

José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 04:28
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Como funciona no Itaú Nov 14, 2011

No Itaú funciona muito bem, há instruções no site do Bankline explicando os dados que você precisa fornecer ao seu cliente. É muito importante ele incluir o seu CPF na ordem de pagamento. Diga que se não tiver um campo para isso, para colocarem em seguida ao seu nome.

A transferência leva 2 dias úteis. Eles dizem "no máximo 5", mas nunca passou de 2. Você terá de fornecer ao banco (no segundo desses dias) cópia escaneada em PDF via e-mail (ou entregar pessoalmente na agência) da PO e da sua Invoice, e cada transação custa R$ 104,00, que eles descontam do que você receber.

Para isso funcionar, você precisa ir à agência UMA VEZ e assinar um contrato permanente de câmbio. Isto funciona tanto no Itaú comum como no Personnalité.

O Itaú Personnalité tem uma outra opção, mais recente. Você não pode ter o contrato permanente (tive de rescindir o meu), e faz tudo online. A tarifa cai para R$ 40,00 por transação. Se você configurar tudo direitinho, receberá um e-mail avisando que a transferência chegou, e pedindo para responder a esse e-mail com as cópias da PO e Invoice.

O pessoal do câmbio do Itaú (por telefone) é incrivelmente gentil, paciente e prestativo.


Outras opções são Moneygram (você precisa ir pessoalmente com CPF, RG e comprovante de endereço a uma agência do Itaú comum - não o Pesonnalité), e Western Union (idem em tudo, mas no Banco do Brasil). Não precisa ser cliente em nenhum dos casos. Recebe em dinheiro na hora, a partir de 10 minutos após o envio. O problema é que o rementente precisa levar o pagamento em dinheiro até um dos inúmeros escritórios das respectivas empresas, e o limite é baixo, acho que USD 900 por remessa, no máximo.


 

Paula Borges  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 04:28
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
José Henrique Nov 14, 2011

Pois é, o Banco do Brasil acabou de me informar sobre sua parceria com o Western Union, mas neste caso além da taxa bancária incide também a comissão do intermediário? Isto não está detalhado no site.

A minha dúvida era exatamente esta, se a cópia do Invoice seria considerada documentação válida. A cópia da PO e invoice deve ser enviada a cada transação?

Muito obrigada pelas informações.


 

Stefan Blommaert  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 08:28
Member (2012)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Terribly sorry, but that is just theory! Nov 14, 2011

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:


Outras opções são Moneygram (você precisa ir pessoalmente com CPF, RG e comprovante de endereço a uma agência do Itaú comum - não o Pesonnalité), e Western Union (idem em tudo, mas no Banco do Brasil). Não precisa ser cliente em nenhum dos casos. Recebe em dinheiro na hora, a partir de 10 minutos após o envio. O problema é que o rementente precisa levar o pagamento em dinheiro até um dos inúmeros escritórios das respectivas empresas, e o limite é baixo, acho que USD 900 por remessa, no máximo.


I have plenty of experience with this as well, and I am sad to say that, even with this wonderfully simple system (at least in the rest of the world), the Brazilians succeed in complicating things, at least in the North-East. Demanding proof of address that is at most 15 days old, demanding "copias certificadas" (!?) dos documentos, demanding to open an account (when receiving the money at Banco do Brasil...and this is NOT a joke!)...you name it, we have been confronted with it!

Am sorry to say that nothing is simple in Brazil, not even the simple things. All too pleased to create problems in order to try to sell half solutions. Especially when you receive money from abroad, because that means that you have got money...and if you have got money, you're game! Once again, perhaps it is just my small (6 year) experience in the North-East, but I am not so positive anymore. Am looking forward to the World Cup and the Olympics!


 

José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 04:28
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Respostas Nov 14, 2011

Parece que a Western Union é bem cara, pelo que dizem. A tarifa é cobrada de quem envia.

Pelo que entendi do Itaú, as cópias da PO e da Invoice (o valor PRECISA bater!) são arquivados no banco apenas para o caso de a Receita Federal resolver investigar quem recebeu quanto a lavagem de dinheiro, tráfico de entorpecentes, contrabando etc. Por isso, comvém declarar no IRPF essas receitas. Nada mais.

Teoricamente, eles só deveriam exigir essas cópias com valores acima de USD 3.000, mas exigem em todas. Se o valor de uma transferência dessas passar de USD 10.000, vai um comunicado eletrônico para a Receita Federal imediatamente.


 

Ivan Rocha, CT
Canada
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Not only in NE Nov 14, 2011

sblatlangtech wrote:I have plenty of experience with this as well, and I am sad to say that, even with this wonderfully simple system (at least in the rest of the world), the Brazilians succeed in complicating things, at least in the North-East. Demanding proof of address that is at most 15 days old, demanding "copias certificadas" (!?) dos documentos, demanding to open an account (when receiving the money at Banco do Brasil...and this is NOT a joke!)...you name it, we have been confronted with it!

Am sorry to say that nothing is simple in Brazil, not even the simple things. All too pleased to create problems in order to try to sell half solutions. Especially when you receive money from abroad, because that means that you have got money...and if you have got money, you're game! Once again, perhaps it is just my small (6 year) experience in the North-East, but I am not so positive anymore. Am looking forward to the World Cup and the Olympics!


Tais problemas não ocorrem somente no Nordeste, infelizmente.


 

José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 04:28
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Am I so lucky? Nov 15, 2011

sblatlangtech wrote:
I have plenty of experience with this as well, and I am sad to say that, even with this wonderfully simple system (at least in the rest of the world), the Brazilians succeed in complicating things, at least in the North-East. Demanding proof of address that is at most 15 days old, demanding "copias certificadas" (!?) dos documentos, demanding to open an account (when receiving the money at Banco do Brasil...and this is NOT a joke!)...you name it, we have been confronted with it!

Am sorry to say that nothing is simple in Brazil, not even the simple things. All too pleased to create problems in order to try to sell half solutions. Especially when you receive money from abroad, because that means that you have got money...and if you have got money, you're game! Once again, perhaps it is just my small (6 year) experience in the North-East, but I am not so positive anymore. Am looking forward to the World Cup and the Olympics!


If you must write in English, maybe you received a cold shoulder from Banco do Brasil, possibly because your docs (e.g. RNE instead of a RG) looked weird to them, they are not used to that. I went to Banco do Brasil to receive a transfer through WU, and yes, I had to wait in line for longer than I'm used to. The clerk who serviced my request took ages to find a computer in working condition, at least one enabled to connect to the WU system. My proof of address was just any utility bill issued to me, can't recall which.

I took the Moneygram code with the three docs required directly to the teller at Itaú, and received cash at once, which I told him to deposit to my account, and it was done forthwith.

However I know that the client who sent me that WU payment had to stand in line for a couple of hours at a post office somewhere in Turkey. And the other one, I think in France, who sent me a payment via Moneygram asked me to find some alternate way.

Meanwhile I get payments via Xoom (only works from the USA into some 30 countries) every other week, and it works like magic.

The really, really bad one is PayPal. If the client pays with an eCheck, my account gets credited only 3-5 US banking days later. Then it takes them 3-5 BR banking days to transfer to my bank account in Brazil. Were that not enough, they deduct 7.5% from whatever I receive as fees, and admittedly adopt a 1% lower exchange rate. Yet most people seem to prefer it. I avoid PayPal as much as possible.

[Edited at 2011-11-15 10:55 GMT]


 

Paula Borges  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 04:28
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Premier is what it means... Nov 15, 2011


If you want to avoid that, make sure you become a HSBC Premier customer (if you qualify, based on income...after all, Brazil is a wonderful equalitarian country!)


[Edited at 2011-11-14 21:31 GMT]

[Edited at 2011-11-14 21:35 GMT]

[Edited at 2011-11-14 21:36 GMT]

[Edited at 2011-11-14 22:24 GMT]


You only qualify to be a Premier customer based on income, and that's anywhere in the world, including the UK.

Now, of course, if you have your RNE, recent proof of residence issued directly to you, CPF and all the documentation it shouldn't be too difficult. Perhaps they do not have special branches with English speaking employees like they do here.

José - I think this Moneygram option looks really good, I'll look into it! Thank you very much.


 

Stefan Blommaert  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 08:28
Member (2012)
English to Dutch
+ ...
You asked for experiences, I gave them Nov 15, 2011

Paula Borges wrote:

Now, of course, if you have your RNE, recent proof of residence issued directly to you, CPF and all the documentation it shouldn't be too difficult. Perhaps they do not have special branches with English speaking employees like they do here.

José - I think this Moneygram option looks really good, I'll look into it! Thank you very much.


Paula, you asked for personal experiences; I gave you these....I like your use of "it SHOULDN'T be too difficult"...I agree with that. Unfortunately, experience shows that it is. As said, at least in the North-East, but from what I gather, it is definitely NOT limited to the N-E.

E posso lhe garantir que eu não preciso ser atendido em Inglês; o meu Português falado é bastante bem. Infelizmente, eu não posso esconder que sou "gringo". No N-E isso ja vale por receber um "tratamento diferenciado" (and I do not mean this in the positive way).

By the way; I was a HSBC Premier client and there indeed was a sign saying "You can speak English here"...Unfortunately, during the 4 years I was client there, I never met anybody who got any further that "the book is on the table". I also had to make a scene because my Brazilian partner was barred from entering the "Premier zone" when accompanying me because he was wearing chinelos (and thus "visibly poor") and wasn't a Premier client. Of course, Premier means exactly what it says; everywhere in the world. But I can guarantee you that I have never met such downright degrading, humiliating and condescending behaviour as that time. Poor Brazilians treating poor Brazilians like a pice of excrement, just for the fun of it or because it makes them feel better to be able to exert their 10 seconds of power.

Good luck with transferring your money!


 

Stefan Blommaert  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 08:28
Member (2012)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Outra possibilidade... Nov 15, 2011

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:


If you must write in English, maybe you received a cold shoulder from Banco do Brasil, possibly because your docs (e.g. RNE instead of a RG) looked weird to them, they are not used to that. I went to Banco do Brasil to receive a transfer through WU, and yes, I had to wait in line for longer than I'm used to. The clerk who serviced my request took ages to find a computer in working condition, at least one enabled to connect to the WU system. My proof of address was just any utility bill issued to me, can't recall which.



uma outra possibilidade facil e simples é de conhecer alguem importante "dentro", alguem quem poderia "dar um jeito".
Deve ser a unica coisa que funciona perfeitamente; o velho jeitinho Brasileiro!

[Edited at 2011-11-15 11:21 GMT]


 

Stefan Blommaert  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 08:28
Member (2012)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Another detail with regard to Moneygram/Western Union Nov 15, 2011

When someone sends money with this system, the money arrives in Brazil in US$ and the exchange rate they use (up to that point) is the official exchange rate. The amount in US$ arriving in Brazil is, hence, exactly as mentioned on the computer slip the peron who sent the money received upon payment.

So far so good....

After arriving in US$, however, the amount is converted into R$ and that is where it goes wrong (again). We have used this system for over two years now and have sent money on a monthly basis (maintenance of our house). Our experience is that the amount in R$ that eventually arrives, is on average (averaged over these two years) about 10% lower than one could have expected using the official exchange rate and without making the transfer first through US$. And we (again) will not mention the various extra "taxas".

Unfortunately, there is no way of doing anything against this. The exchange rate US$-R$ is "internal kitchen" and it has nothing to do with Moneygram. I have spoken to them about this and they have acknowledged that they are aware of the problem but that they can do nothing against it. On one occasion I spoke to a Moneygram person (or Western Union, I have to admit I don't remember) who even literally told me that it was not interesting to use their system to send money to Brazil.

For what it's worth!


 

Paula Borges  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 04:28
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
No longer helpful Nov 15, 2011

sblatlangtech wrote:

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:


If you must write in English, maybe you received a cold shoulder from Banco do Brasil, possibly because your docs (e.g. RNE instead of a RG) looked weird to them, they are not used to that. I went to Banco do Brasil to receive a transfer through WU, and yes, I had to wait in line for longer than I'm used to. The clerk who serviced my request took ages to find a computer in working condition, at least one enabled to connect to the WU system. My proof of address was just any utility bill issued to me, can't recall which.



uma outra possibilidade facil e simples é de conhecer alguem importante "dentro", alguem quem poderia "dar um jeito".
Deve ser a unica coisa que funciona perfeitamente; o velho jeitinho Brasileiro!

[Edited at 2011-11-15 11:21 GMT]


I'm very sorry you've had bad experiences and I can't say anything about where you live. It sounds very different from what I'm used to, apart from the fact that wearing flip flops to banks, offices and malls is not accepted at all times. All I can say is that in Sao Paulo my British husband gets treated very well (as well as all of our British friends) but, of course he faced some difficulties before his documentation was ok and still struggles with the language.

As for the rest, I'm asking colleagues about their experiences and options regarding a practical situation. Frankly, I think your last post is slightly insulting and no longer helpful in any way. Thank you.


 

José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 04:28
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Comments Nov 15, 2011

Bank security in Brazil is operated by some numbskull expendable idiots. The idea is that, since they are armed, a bank robber will shoot them FIRST, instead of the clients, who have been screened for carrying no weapons before entering the bank. As they are in charge of the turnstile, they may let in a drunken hobo, and hold a well-dressed executive; it's their decision. The not-so-publicized truth is that they are there because they are expendable, and not due to their extensive training or sharpness in detecting potential suspects.

The "jeitinho" for international money transfers in Brazil is ancient, and agonizing: it's called doleiro, aka black market currency merchant. Online trade has taken away all their petty business. The few ones that remain only serve corrupt politicians and other people who need to launder their money overseas.

The cost of transfering money into Brazil is high, as many outlanders are interested in investing into our government-driven abusive interest rates that feed this demand. So smaller operators have to charge a lot to remain small, otherwise the big-time investors will force them to grow beyond their resources. As it's quite competitive, rates vary, so it's worthwhile to search for the lowest ones.

[Edited at 2011-11-15 14:09 GMT]


 

Eric Dos Santos
Italy
Local time: 09:28
Italian to Portuguese
+ ...
relevância para o assunto em pauta... Nov 16, 2011

Entendo que o colega talvez tenha tido experiências negativas no Brasil. Na verdade, mesmo eu como brasileiro também pude constatar que o sistema bancário brasileiro, especialmente quando lida com dinheiro do exterior não é eficiente, pelo menos em relação à remessas de natureza pessoal.
Porém, acho que a colega procurava dicas e sugestões construtivas. Muitos pessoas após terem tido experiências ruins no exterior tendem a ver as coisas de modo subjetivo, e se tornam muito críticas para com o país onde estiveram. Creio que em todos os lugares há pessoas inteligentes e menos inteligentes, educadas e rudes etc.
Voltando ao assunto, talvez a melhor solução seja fazer uma pesquisa e comparar os vários serviços oferecidos pelas instituições aí em SP.
Bom dia e bom trabalho a todos.


 
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