| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | How native/ nonnative do Abba songs sound? Thread poster: Lingua 5B
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Lingua 5B 
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 00:58
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
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TOPIC STARTER | IMO, consonants are more specific in each lang. | Dec 23, 2010 |
than vowels our..
I've noticed this problem on very simple and small words in nonnative speakers.. for example, I am yet to hear a nonative from my own region to pronounce the word "two" like a native does. The consonant T seems to develop very specific variations in English.
Then the word "cake"... never heard a nonnative pronouncing it right. ( especially how the Brits pronounce it)
I'm taking these simple common words on purpose, because many people ha... See more than vowels our..
I've noticed this problem on very simple and small words in nonnative speakers.. for example, I am yet to hear a nonative from my own region to pronounce the word "two" like a native does. The consonant T seems to develop very specific variations in English.
Then the word "cake"... never heard a nonnative pronouncing it right. ( especially how the Brits pronounce it)
I'm taking these simple common words on purpose, because many people have misconception that only long and multisyllable words would be problematic to pronounce in English.
[Edited at 2010-12-23 23:42 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Apart from the native/non-native issue, why Abba?
And a plague on your question, I've had to find and dance to Abba since you posted, and I haven't fed the rats yet.
Suzy-Hang-Around
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 00:58
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Susanna Garcia wrote:
Apart from the native/non-native issue, why Abba?
And a plague on your question, I've had to find and dance to Abba since you posted, and I haven't fed the rats yet.
Suzy-Hang-Around
Just keep on dancing, dancing is good for you.
Don't know why ABBA, no specific reason. A while ago this was brought up by a British friend, so I thought it'd be a good discussion on pronunciation issues on the forums.
[Edited at 2010-12-23 23:51 GMT]
| | | | | Which leads us to..... | Dec 24, 2010 |
You know you're a translator when ...............
instead of dancing to Abba, you post about pronunciation!
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Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 00:58
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Exactely.. ;P | Dec 24, 2010 |
I've always danced to them, love the songs really.. they are the type of music that never gets old.
You can't even notice their pronunciation that's how good the music and singing quality is , at least IMO.
However, my friend took it as an example of a very good yet nonnative English. Btw, my friend isn't a translator or linguist, not even sure how we got to this point in conversation, but it was somehow brought up. And I had to post it here for discussion, yes " you kn... See more I've always danced to them, love the songs really.. they are the type of music that never gets old.
You can't even notice their pronunciation that's how good the music and singing quality is , at least IMO.
However, my friend took it as an example of a very good yet nonnative English. Btw, my friend isn't a translator or linguist, not even sure how we got to this point in conversation, but it was somehow brought up. And I had to post it here for discussion, yes " you know you are a translator when... " thingy ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Come to think of it ...................... | Dec 24, 2010 |
Susanna Garcia wrote:
You know you're a translator when ...............
instead of dancing to Abba, you post about pronunciation!
So what does that make me........................
| | | | | "English nativeness"? | Dec 24, 2010 |
Abba do a very convincing job of singing in the mid-Atlantic accent favoured by British performers of modern popular music. This was developed as a concession to the predominance of the USA in the 1950s and established itself as the norm from the 1960s onwards. 'Wahderloo' now sounds fairly natural to a British ear. However, I have no idea what the Americans think when they hear it.
| | | | | Native from where? | Dec 25, 2010 |
I did not know they were Swedish for quite a long time!
Having been used to lots of accents from Anglo-Indian to various American and Canadian to a range of northern and southern British... I could not place ABBA, but that did not worry me.
I did think 'Knowing me, knowing you, It's the best I CAN do' sounded a bit odd, but thought it was simply to fit the tune. That suggests that the rest of their songs were quite convincing.
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Simone Linke
Germany
Local time: 00:58
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Funny, there is just a documentary about ABBA on TV.. and indeed, you're right, there is a slight accent.. but for some reason, I always remember the melodies and the music etc.. I've never listened that closely.
| | | | | Native or non-native,... | Dec 26, 2010 |
...their music is simply fantastic. I can only regret that they had broken up before the communist regimes fell in Central Europe in 1989.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 23:58
Member (2007)
English
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| I think this is a good point | Dec 27, 2010 |
Madeleine MacRae Klintebo wrote:
non-natives compare pronunciation with the standard English they learnt at school whereas natives have more appreciation/knowledge of the multiple pronunciations of vowel sounds existing in their language's dialects?
I reckon the difference between native speakers from Dorset and Glasgow is vastly greater!
Living in France and married to a musisian, I'm often exposed to people singing in English when they have no idea of what they are singing about and really don't form the words correctly - you can't tell where one word ends and the next begins.
It's clear that members of Abba view English as a second language, not a foreign one.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:58
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Mid-Atlantic | Jan 30, 2012 |
Lingua 5B wrote:
Actually I'd like to ask native colleagues this question; those of you who heard more than three Abba songs, out of which there are many I believe:
When you listen to them, how do consonants and vocals sound in terms of English nativeness, to your native ear?
A British friend said they sound quite nonnative, and I'd like to hear your opinions as well!
Remember this is not a discussion about musical quality but the English word articulation/pronunciation.
Thanks!
[Edited at 2010-12-23 17:18 GMT]
They sound mid-Atlantic to me. Not pleasant. Harsh, flat, without inflection, pronounced as though a machine were speaking English.
But does it really matter all that much how Abba sounds? Should I be lying awake at night worrying about this?
As for the strange word "nonative": I have no idea what it means.
[Edited at 2012-01-30 11:29 GMT]
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Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 00:58
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Creaky Voices nightmare? | Jan 30, 2012 |
Tom in London wrote:
Should I be lying awake at night worrying about this?
No, definitely not. However, you can do so worrying about creaky female voices.
| | | | Andrea Russo
Italy
Local time: 00:58
English to Italian
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| The influence of knowledge... | Jan 30, 2012 |
Susanna Garcia wrote:
It's hard to say because you know that they're Swedish but if I could listen without prior knowledge, I think I'd believe they were native. It's a debate that could go on and on and on, but that's the name of the game.
Suzy-Hang-Around
Yes, we're inevitably influenced by the fact that we know they're Swedish.
Anyway, singing is very different from speaking at a normal pace and, in my very humble opinion (I'm not a native speaker) they do sound English (not British, but American), as some of you have already pointed out.
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:58
Hebrew to English
...they sound native-enough.
That is, I wouldn't think they were non-native just be passively listening to them singing.
Talking is another matter, the interview you posted of Frida - she definitely has Swedish intonation if you ask me (that up and down sing-song melody that people say characterises Swedish).
If I did a full phonetic analysis of them I might find evidence of their foreign roots, but if you have to do that to detect their "non... See more ...they sound native-enough.
That is, I wouldn't think they were non-native just be passively listening to them singing.
Talking is another matter, the interview you posted of Frida - she definitely has Swedish intonation if you ask me (that up and down sing-song melody that people say characterises Swedish).
If I did a full phonetic analysis of them I might find evidence of their foreign roots, but if you have to do that to detect their "non-nativeness" then they've done a pretty good job of disguising it....if you find "mistakes" in their lyrics you have to be careful not to too quickly brand them "non-native" errors. In songs, it can be murky to distinguish non-native errors from artistic licence.
Otherwise how would you explain songs like Timbaland's "The Way I Are". He's from Virginia, USA.
In addition, you have the phenomenon where English/Irish singers magically 'acquire' American accents when they sing.
[Edited at 2012-01-30 13:37 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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