| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Proofreading: monolingual? Thread poster: Fabio Descalzi
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Fabio Descalzi 
Uruguay
Local time: 04:42
Member (2004)
German to Spanish
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Proofreading traditionally means reading a proof copy of a text in order to detect and correct any errors. Modern proofreading often requires reading copy at earlier stages as well.
Proofreading is considered a specific skill that must be learned because it is the nature of the mind to automatically correct errors. Someone not trained in proofreading may not see errors such as missing words or improper usage because their mind is showing them what it is trained to recognize as corre... See more Proofreading traditionally means reading a proof copy of a text in order to detect and correct any errors. Modern proofreading often requires reading copy at earlier stages as well.
Proofreading is considered a specific skill that must be learned because it is the nature of the mind to automatically correct errors. Someone not trained in proofreading may not see errors such as missing words or improper usage because their mind is showing them what it is trained to recognize as correct.
The term proofreading is sometimes used incorrectly to refer to copy-editing. This is a separate activity, although there is some overlap between the two. Proofreading consists of reviewing any text, either hard copy (on paper) or electronic copy (on a computer) and checking for typos and formatting errors. This may be done either against an original document or "blind" (without checking against any other source). Many modern proofreaders are also required to take on some light copy-editing duties, such as checking for grammar and consistency issues.
(source: Wikipedia)
At ProZ.com there are quite a few Proofreading jobs on offer, asking for bilingual professionals.
Why...? ▲ Collapse
| | | | mediamatrix (X)
Local time: 03:42
Spanish to English
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| One possibility... | Oct 5, 2007 |
Fabio Descalzi Sgarbi wrote:
At ProZ.com there are quite a few Proofreading jobs on offer, asking for bilingual professionals.
Why...?
Presumably anyone looking for a proof-reader here on proz.com is working in a translation environment, and that implies that the text to be proof-read is a translation, not original material.
Often, when someting 'odd' is found in a translated text, the proof-reader will need to refer to the source text to be sure (s)he doesn't just make things even worse. And who better than a translator - suitably qualified of course, by which I mean if not 'bi-lingual' then at least competent in both languages - to make sure things are made righter, not wronger?
MediaMatrix
| | | | liz askew
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:42
Member (2007)
French to English
+ ...
Well, it is interesting what you say.
I did a proofreading job once and the original text was in Polish! Now, I don't know any Polish so just had the English to deal with and the client knew this. When I had done the job they said not only had I proofread it well but I could join their editorial team! Now there's a rare compliment.
I would have thought proofreaders just read and corrected their native tongue, and did not need to know the language of the original doc... See more Well, it is interesting what you say.
I did a proofreading job once and the original text was in Polish! Now, I don't know any Polish so just had the English to deal with and the client knew this. When I had done the job they said not only had I proofread it well but I could join their editorial team! Now there's a rare compliment.
I would have thought proofreaders just read and corrected their native tongue, and did not need to know the language of the original document.
It will be good to see what others say.
Liz Askew
[Edited at 2007-10-05 19:21]
[Edited at 2007-10-05 19:22] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Marina Soldati
Argentina
Local time: 04:42
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Hi!
The Wikipedia´s definition is what I´ve always understood for proofreading.
I was asked once to proofread a Spanish text (spelling, grammar, formatting), and though the agency sent the source text (English), it was only for formatting purposes, not to revise the translation.
My 2 cents.
Regards,
Marina
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| Having the source to refer to is a definite advantage | Oct 5, 2007 |
However, some months ago I was given a proofreading job, to be done solely in English. I requested the source text, assuming it would be German, and was told that it was in Japanese! That explained why the English was quite awkward to make sense of, however even that piece of information can be useful to a proofreader who is aware of typical mistakes made by Japanese people when speaking English.
Astrid
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Proofreading is monolingual.
You may proofread either a translation or just a text originally written in that language you are proofreading.
You should look for grammar mistakes, typos, consistency and so on.
In case of a translation, it might help having the original - if you work in that language pair. But watch out, they might ask you to copywrite, to edit, to check the translation is rigth and so on. And that is not proofreading and charges are different.... See more Proofreading is monolingual.
You may proofread either a translation or just a text originally written in that language you are proofreading.
You should look for grammar mistakes, typos, consistency and so on.
In case of a translation, it might help having the original - if you work in that language pair. But watch out, they might ask you to copywrite, to edit, to check the translation is rigth and so on. And that is not proofreading and charges are different.
As an example: I proofread several texts written in Spanish that were translated from Japanese. I have no knowledge of Japanese, at all.
The client wanted me to check for grammar mistakes, but also to be sure it sounded natural to a Spanish speaker.
Walter ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lia Fail (X)
Spain
Local time: 09:42
Spanish to English
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| translation - revison - review | Oct 5, 2007 |
I think that we have a terminology problem.
Proofreading and editing are terms that come to us from the monolingual publishing world.
In the translation world:
One issue is the second pair of eyes for a translated text, where the second pair of eyes knows both languages and compares both texts for correct transfer of information and general correctness.
Another issue is a monolingual pair of eyes that assesses the text for appropriateness to th... See more I think that we have a terminology problem.
Proofreading and editing are terms that come to us from the monolingual publishing world.
In the translation world:
One issue is the second pair of eyes for a translated text, where the second pair of eyes knows both languages and compares both texts for correct transfer of information and general correctness.
Another issue is a monolingual pair of eyes that assesses the text for appropriateness to the domain for which it is intended.
After that, once we get to a formal publishing stage (that is, where a lot depends on a text being faultless or near faultless), then editing and proofreading enter into play.
That's how I see it. I'm guided by the terminology used in the new European translation standard, EN 15038, which refers to:
1. translation
2. revision
3. review.
PS: As Walter pointed out it is EN 15038 not 15073 as I had it originally.
[Edited at 2007-10-06 16:52] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Parrot
Spain
Local time: 09:42
Spanish to English
+ ...
There's a monolingual assumption in the definition (the term comes from monolingual publishing) and we translators jump one step ahead.
"revision" certainly sounds clearer to me as an equivalent of the "galley proof" stage. (Seeing it in print prior to seeing it in layout).
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Lia Fail wrote:
I think that we have a terminology problem.
Proofreading and editing are terms that come to us from the monolingual publishing world.
In the translation world:
One issue is the second pair of eyes for a translated text, where the second pair of eyes knows both languages and compares both texts for correct transfer of information and general correctness.
Another issue is a monolingual pair of eyes that assesses the text for appropriateness to the domain for which it is intended.
After that, once we get to a formal publishing stage (that is, where a lot depends on a text being faultless or near faultless), then editing and proofreading enter into play.
That's how I see it. I'm guided by the terminology used in the new European translation standard, EN 15073, which refers to:
1. translation
2. revision
3. review.
This is in line with what I studied in a postgraduate course a few years back (2003).
Problem is our job requests are hardly ever framed that way and clients generally don't know the difference. (or, cunningly do, and try to offer work under the guise of proofreading with its abysmal rates )
[Edited at 2007-10-06 08:11]
| | | | Oliver Walter
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:42
German to English
+ ...
Lia Fail wrote:
That's how I see it. I'm guided by the terminology used in the new European translation standard, EN 15073, which refers to:
1. translation
2. revision
3. review.
EN 15038?
Oliver
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 09:42
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| I disagree with the Wikipedia | Oct 6, 2007 |
Fabio Descalzi Sgarbi wrote:
Wikipedia says:
The term proofreading is sometimes used incorrectly to refer to copy-editing. This is a separate activity, although there is some overlap between the two. Proofreading consists of reviewing any text, either hard copy (on paper) or electronic copy (on a computer) and checking for typos and formatting errors. This may be done either against an original document or "blind" (without checking against any other source).
At ProZ.com there are quite a few Proofreading jobs on offer, asking for bilingual professionals. Why...?
The Wikipedia article creates the impression that proofreading is never done on biligual files. The Wikipedia also states that proofreading is not necessarily done against some other document.
To my mind, proofreading is *always* about checking the current document against some other document. The other document may be an earlier version of it, a sign-off version of it, or... it could be a version of it in another language or in another format.
It would seem that the Wikipedia author thinks proofreading mainly refers to the checking of galley proofs. In my opinion, galley proofing is such a special job that the job advert should read "galley proofreader required", not just "proofreader required".
Graphic artists and printers use galley proofreaders. Translators also use proofreaders... and those proofreaders also check and compare, just like their galley colleagues do, but translators' proofreaders compare against something in another language.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 09:42
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Lia Fail wrote:
That's how I see it. I'm guided by the terminology used in the new European translation standard, EN 15073...
Don't you mean prEN 15038? The EN 15073 is a chemical standard.
The prEN 15038 defines four things similar to proofreading, namely "checking", "revision", "review", and "proof-reading". I disagree with these definitions because they don't reflect common usage in the industry. The definitions are:
Checking:
The translator shall check the translation for omissions and confirm that the defined parameters ...have been met.
Revision:
The reviser shall examine the translation for its suitability for purpose.
Review:
The reviewer ... shall carry out a monolingual review to assess the suitability of the final translation for the agreed purpose.
Proof-reading:
Printer’s proof-reading as opposed to revision of a translated text.
What the prEN 15038 calls "checking" is what I understand under the term "proofreading".
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Lia Fail (X)
Spain
Local time: 09:42
Spanish to English
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| Corrected, thank Oliver:-) | Oct 6, 2007 |
Oliver Walter wrote: Lia Fail wrote:
That's how I see it. I'm guided by the terminology used in the new European translation standard, EN 15073, which refers to:
1. translation
2. revision
3. review.
EN 15038? Oliver
| | | | Lia Fail (X)
Spain
Local time: 09:42
Spanish to English
+ ...
Samuel Murray wrote:
Don't you mean prEN 15038? T
The prEN 15038 defines four things similar to proofreading, namely "checking", "revision", "review", and "proof-reading". I disagree with these definitions because they don't reflect common usage in the industry.
....
What the prEN 15038 calls "checking" is what I understand under the term "proofreading".
1. Yes, sorry it's 15038, I stand corrected.
2. I disagree re checking, because checking is something the translator does as part of their translation job. It's the first pair of eyes. It's not a separate process and as far as I'm aware the standard does not define this other than as part of the translation process. To single it out as a separate process is wrong, because it's something all translators should do as part of the trans process.
3. I agree that the word "proofreading" is part of the "printing" process. Like I said, the term comes to us from the monolingual and formal/traditional printing world, like the word "galleys", which strikes me as a rather "old"word:-)
4. Finally, you say "these definitions ... don't reflect common usage in the industry". I'm not sure they are intended to. The EN15038 is aimed at creating a standard for translation quality, and one of its cornerstones is defining different levels of required quality for the finished product. Maybe it's to be published, maybe it's for info only. Much of the work we translators do isn't formally published after costly print runs nor is it prestige work (literature, essays, authored works).
To my mind "proper" proofreading is associated with paper (or PDF) correction of galleys.
Encyclopaedia Britannica on proofreading: ... reading and marking corrections on a proof or other copy of the text of articles and books before publication. Proofreading dates from the early days of printing. A contract of 1499 held the author finally responsible for correction of proofs. In modern practice, proofs are made first from a galley, a long tray holding a column of type, and hence are called galley proofs; the term is sometimes also used for the first copy produced in photocomposition and other forms of typesetting that do not involve metal type ....
[Edited at 2007-10-06 17:14]
| | | | | I'm not sure that helps :-) | Oct 7, 2007 |
1. translation
2. revision
3. review.
OK, I fully appreciate that, in the translation industry, the term proofreading can be used/misused/abused to cover a multitude of sins. I fully agree that it would be fab and groovy to clear the issue up once and for all, and have some specific terms to refer to specific tasks.
However, I gotta say I have doubts about using both "revision" and "review". Both essentially mean "take another look at", do they not? There's nothing to indicate, in isolation, which one is supposed to mean "compare with source & check for errors" and which is supposed to mean "simply check the target text for mistakes/formatting". To me either one of those words could easily be used to refer to either one of those tasks.
I'm not sure it helps much, in a nutshell.
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