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What KudoZ are all about
Thread poster: JCEC

JCEC  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 01:10
Member
English to French
Nov 24, 2002

Answering KudoZ questions is fun and a definite mental challenge. I plead guilty on this count.



But KudoZ are not jus fun. They are a responsibility towards our fellow translators and we owe them references.



Some Proz members are evidently highly-qualified translators, know the answer from experience and stop there. We cannot expect askers to take us at our word. And, if they do what is our word worth? What if the ungiven context is one we were not able to imagine?



I have seen complaints about askers taking the wrong answer. As far as I\'m concerned, it is their problem as long as we make sure they do not end up in the KudoZ database or ask for a correction. Moderators periodically review the entries and correct them. I have seen it done.



The best way to avoid misinformed selections is to document answers. The more information given, the more the asker can judge whether it applies to his or her context.



You love the game: No problem. Enter the term to put your foot in the door, then use the ADD button to include the dictionary definition or one or more instances of actual use taken from your favourite browser.



Sometimes you will find that your first intuition was wrong or not the best choice. No problem either. There is a little-used Hide feature which enables you to blush anonymously.



While I\'m in a moralizing mood, the same button can be used to delete multiple entries due to impatience with ProZ problems. And why not have the courtesy to delete your undocumented entry if it is identical to a previously entered one.



For my part, I like to add comments in the form of Notes. I never get any points for these notes, but I feel I have added useful information to valid suggestions from my colleagues.



I hope I havn\'t been too much of a pain in the you know what,



John

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-11-24 03:44 ]


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Nathalie M. Girard, ALHC  Identity Verified
English to French
+ ...
Excellent points John! Nov 24, 2002

And you\'re *never* a pain in the you know what either!!!!



(who gave you that idea?)



I for one, am very happy that you brought forward this subject.



We have new members (young and old) joining the site all the time, and it is good to remind everyone how things should work... the site has so much information that it can be overwhelming at times.



Merci John!



Nathalie

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-11-24 03:12 ]


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Arthur Borges
China
Local time: 14:10
English
+ ...
Thanx John Nov 24, 2002

Relevant and well put

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Gayle Wallimann  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:10
Member (2001)
French to English
+ ...
Well spoken! Nov 24, 2002

I hope we all remember these good words as we type away and submit.

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Henry Hinds  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:10
English to Spanish
+ ...
I give Nov 24, 2002

...from what I have in my head. I only give answers that are in some way valid. They may not fit the context because many times there is none. They may not fit the region but if my answer is regional, I mention the region.



It is what I have to give, what is in my head.



After that it is the asker\'s job to do his or her homework and then decide if it is the best answer.



I don\'t do research for anyone, that is what they are being paid to do.



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Patricia Lutteral  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 03:10
English to Spanish
+ ...
You are so right Nov 24, 2002

The combination of asker\'s lack of experience and answerer\'s lack of references very often results in wrong additions to the glossaries.



Thanks for stating this so clearly; not a pain at all!



Best regards,



Patricia





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xxxwilliamson
Local time: 07:10
Dutch to English
+ ...
Are peers and graders always right? Nov 24, 2002

A while ago, I cut out an answer out of the electronic version of a Standard Dictionary for a particular language and pasted it into the answer box. However, my peers and the grader chose another less accurate answer because they \"believed\" it to be the correct answer. Does that mean that the Standard Dictionary of a language such as Le Robert (French), Langenscheidt and Duden (German), Van Dale (Dutch), Maria Moliner and DRAE (Spanish) or specialised technical dicos are providing us with faulty definitions of words?

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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 07:10
English to German
+ ...
Dicos aren't always right, I'm afraid Nov 24, 2002

Quote:


Does that mean that the Standard Dictionary of a language such as Le Robert (French), Langenscheidt and Duden (German), Van Dale (Dutch), Maria Moliner and DRAE (Spanish) or specialised technical dicos are providing us with faulty definitions of words?



I have seen cases of incorrect dictionary entries (admittedly, for technical terms), or of terms being used in an inappropriate context - obviously, I cannot judge the merits of your case. As a general suggestion, if you\'re unhappy with a glossary entry, contact the moderator for the language pair involved.

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xxxwilliamson
Local time: 07:10
Dutch to English
+ ...
Should moderators participate in Kudoz Nov 24, 2002

Should moderators participate in Kudoz or be neutral and earn marks by being referees of \"the game\", i.e. by correcting erroneous entries (assure a kind of QC) and by adjudging marks for the correct answers or correct marks given to an answerer, when it is obvious that his/her answer was wrong. Of course, they should be able to motivate their corrections by authoritative sources.



Wouldn\'t it be better to have \"peer grading\" but with a moderator of the language-pair acting as a watchdog?



If you have \"a stake in the game\" (the moderator was one of the \"peers\" judging the answer) how can you be neutral?



Moreover, I do not think that a Standard Dico of a language contains many errors; after all, they are the authoritative source at official institutions, courts and even private institutions.





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OlafK
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:10
English to German
+ ...
Depends on context Nov 24, 2002

Seasoned translators should know that standard translations taken from dictionaries don\'t always fit every context. Language develops faster than dictionaries can be revised anyway. And who writes dictionaries after all? People like you and me.

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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 03:10
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
Moderators as stakeholders Nov 24, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-11-24 14:37, williamson wrote:

Should moderators participate in Kudoz or be neutral and earn marks by being referees of \"the game\", i.e. by correcting erroneous entries (assure a kind of QC) and by adjudging marks for the correct answers or correct marks given to an answerer, when it is obvious that his/her answer was wrong. Of course, they should be able to motivate their corrections by authoritative sources.



Wouldn\'t it be better to have \"peer grading\" but with a moderator of the language-pair acting as a watchdog?



If you have \"a stake in the game\" (the moderator was one of the \"peers\" judging the answer) how can you be neutral?



Moreover, I do not think that a Standard Dico of a language contains many errors; after all, they are the authoritative source at official institutions, courts and even private institutions.







I know the moderators for the Es>SP and SP>EN pairs. They are very honorable people. To think that any of them would twist a decision out of greed, to \"steal\" KudoZ is absurd.



These mods work for free, dedicating their time to improve the site for our benefit. I see little point in giving them extra responsibility to compensate for other members failures.



Dictionaries are not wrong, but sometimes you have to pick the right option among several offered. Sometimes in a technical field this can be tricky.



Regards,

Enrique Cavalitto
[addsig]

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Nathalie M. Girard, ALHC  Identity Verified
English to French
+ ...
I agree with Enrique Nov 24, 2002

Holà a todos!



Well said Enrique



I also fully trust the moderators, and I have to add that dictionaries do not all offer the *correct* options (related to the context of the asker, and of course because of the ever changing nature of languages).



Dictionaries also contain typos (I\'ve seen some in all of my \"otherwise excellent\" Robert-Collins, Gladstone, Larousse etc...) - these are all created by humans, and thus, human error is a factor that we cannot rule out.



Have a beautiful Sunday!



Nathalie


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xxxwilliamson
Local time: 07:10
Dutch to English
+ ...
Win-Win Situation Nov 24, 2002

Why this vehement reaction? I am not accusing anybody of anything. I just propose a win-win situation/system, which in the end ensures the quality/consistency of available terminology. Everybody could gain from this system: the moderators as they gain points, the answerers, the peers grading and the translation community as a whole, given that the quality and consistency of the terminology entered into Proz-database/terminology-base.



Proz is \"a\" way to get to know views and people, but not thé only way to find work.



Having a few or a lot of Kudoz-points does not make any difference to me in finding jobs. So why do you get upset about a contest?


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 07:10
English to German
+ ...
Ensure correctness and consistency under the current system Nov 24, 2002

Whichever structure you use, some terms in the glossary will always be perceived as incorrect - if you identify such an entry, just contact the moderator for the pair involved, and point out what you think should go in there (where appropriate, by also providing reference). If your point is justified, the moderator will be happy to adjust the entry - whether or not that moderator was involved in answering the question is, IMO, irrelevant.



I fail to see the benefit in prohibiting mods from answering questions - but I do see a major disadvantage: quite a few moderators can provide a service to their SC, based on their experience and level of activity on ProZ (I\'m *not* referring to KudoZ points here).


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Nathalie M. Girard, ALHC  Identity Verified
English to French
+ ...
You bring up an excellent point Ralf Nov 24, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-11-24 18:47, Lemster wrote:



...I fail to see the benefit in prohibiting mods from answering questions - but I do see a major disadvantage: quite a few moderators can provide a service to their SC, based on their experience and level of activity on ProZ (I\'m *not* referring to KudoZ points here).





You bring up an excellent point Ralf as I know that one of the criterias in the selection of moderators is their level of experience in the translation & interpretation industry, thus, they can (and do) bring very valuable input on the Kudoz boards.



I think that the main problem in the Kudoz area is simply that posters do not provide enough context - they have it all in front of their eyes, but the rest of us don\'t - and we try to answer the best way we can with the information provided.



And although the asker may select something which we do not feel is quite appropriate, it may make a lot of sense considering the particular file that they are working on???



Obvious errors should be reported and corrected with the help of the moderators of course... but the rest will remain a shady area as far as see it.



Kind regards,



Nathalie





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