Banned outsourcer gets unbanned with a new name?
Thread poster: Mirko Mainardi

Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 11:07
Member
English to Italian
Jul 27

Is this allowed?

A company gets banned from posting jobs, goes into liquidation, reopens under a new name (apparently 1 day later in the specific case I've noticed on the BB...), and gets a pass?


 

Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
continually rising from the dead, like an indestructible cockroach Jul 27

I hope it's not ‘Veritas Language Solutions’ aka ‘Planet Veritas’ aka ‘Lingua Translations’ ? The company that just won't die. They never pay their translators, then go into liquidation, and then merrily pop up again with a new name and a bunch more fake Google/Facebook reviews. Sadly, UK law makes it very easy to continue in this fashion, continually rising from the dead like an indestructible cockroach.

Michael


Jennifer Forbes
 

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
Member (2004)
English to Italian
How do you know... Jul 27

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

Is this allowed?

A company gets banned from posting jobs, goes into liquidation, reopens under a new name (apparently 1 day later in the specific case I've noticed on the BB...), and gets a pass?


it's the same people? If so, maybe a link to the previous company should be provided on the Blue Board page...


Josephine Cassar
Saleh Chowdhury, Ph.D.
Angie Garbarino
Anthony Teixeira
Angus Stewart
Katalin Szilárd
Tom in London
 

Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
@Mirko Jul 27

If you know that for sure please open a ST for informing the staff

José Henrique Lamensdorf
 

Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 11:07
Member
English to Italian
TOPIC STARTER
UK Jul 27

Michael Beijer wrote:

I hope it's not ‘Veritas Language Solutions’ aka ‘Planet Veritas’ aka ‘Lingua Translations’ ? The company that just won't die. They never pay their translators, then go into liquidation, and then merrily pop up again with a new name and a bunch more fake Google/Facebook reviews. Sadly, UK law makes it very easy to continue in this fashion, continually rising from the dead like an indestructible cockroach.


Nope, different animal, but still in the UK (different address but same phone number...). I think I'm not allowed to name names. They currently have a 3.7 in the past 12 months, with most of the negative entries mentioning late payments, having to chase payments, etc.

@ Angie and Giovanni

I know because IT IS mentioned in the BB with the little red "i" icon for "View note from site staff". I was asking because from my point of view it seems quite questionable (at the very least) that a company that was banned from posting jobs and goes bankrupt without paying its vendors is then allowed to operate again (one day later!) under a new name...


Jennifer Forbes
Teresa Borges
Angus Stewart
Tom in London
missdutch
 

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
Member (2004)
English to Italian
Not sure what ProZ can do... Jul 27

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

Michael Beijer wrote:

I hope it's not ‘Veritas Language Solutions’ aka ‘Planet Veritas’ aka ‘Lingua Translations’ ? The company that just won't die. They never pay their translators, then go into liquidation, and then merrily pop up again with a new name and a bunch more fake Google/Facebook reviews. Sadly, UK law makes it very easy to continue in this fashion, continually rising from the dead like an indestructible cockroach.


Nope, different animal, but still in the UK (different address but same phone number...). I think I'm not allowed to name names. They currently have a 3.7 in the past 12 months, with most of the negative entries mentioning late payments, having to chase payments, etc.

@ Angie and Giovanni

I know because IT IS mentioned in the BB with the little red "i" icon for "View note from site staff". I was asking because from my point of view it seems quite questionable (at the very least) that a company that was banned from posting jobs and goes bankrupt without paying its vendors is then allowed to operate again (one day later!) under a new name...


until it receives complaints about the new company... if there is the red "i" icon, then people will be aware of the link between the old and new company...


Angie Garbarino
 

Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 11:07
Member
English to Italian
TOPIC STARTER
Avoid ban circumvention? Jul 27

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

Not sure what ProZ can do...


Keep them banned or ban them again as soon as you discover that they're the same people under a new name?

Or if this sounds too harsh(?) to someone, at the very least try to avoid that a banned outsourcer may open a new account the very next day and start to post jobs again...


Edit: changed a "they" to "you" for clarity

[Edited at 2018-07-27 15:22 GMT]


Tom in London
Katalin Szilárd
Teresa Borges
 

DZiW
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
a proof in the wilderness Jul 27

Mirco, it takes just a couple of hours to "re-brand" (re-open a biz under a new name) in UA--even during a judicial examination, and it's about the same in other countries; there's little one could do, alas.

You're talking, but often there're several (dummy) co-founders or co-owners, who are at variance with others and may be not aware of misdeeds or crimes, which imposes extra ban issues and nuances.


 

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
Member (2004)
English to Italian
No benefit of the doubt? Jul 27

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

Keep them banned or ban them again as soon as they discover that they're the same people under a new name?

Or if this sounds too harsh(?) to someone, at the very least try to avoid that a banned outsourcer may open a new account the very next day and start to post jobs again...


They might have found the light? I doubt it icon_smile.gif , but since it's officially a new company, surely there must be complaints before anything can be done about it?


 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Common in the UK Jul 27

Alas, it is common in the UK for the directors of a company to pay themselves a very high salary/dividend, run the company into the ground, declare it bankrupt and walk away with the money, leaving the company's creditors with nothing.

Then they set up a new company and do the same thing again. And again, and again.

This is perfectly legal in the UK.


José Henrique Lamensdorf
neilmac
 

Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 11:07
Member (2015)
English to French
+ ...
Agree with Mirko Jul 27

This is not a legal matter, but a matter of risk management and ProZ. it may be perfectly legal to run a company to the ground and create a new one in the UK (but is it also legal to leave unpaid work and business invoices? If it is, then what is legal isn't ethical, at least as far as "business ethics" are involved).

I suggest that, if compelling evidence is provided that a previously banned outsourcer operates under a new company and creates a ProZ account (having registered the same phone number definitely is enough evidence for me):

- The account is linked to the previous profile, in BlueBoard, as usual
- A temporary six month ban is applied to posting ProZ jobs
- The ban is lifted after six months have passed with no new evidence of payment issues being reported under the new profile


Lincoln Hui
Katalin Szilárd
Jennifer Forbes
Teresa Borges
ahartje
José Henrique Lamensdorf
missdutch
 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Unfortunately yes Jul 28

Jean Dimitriadis wrote:

....(but is it also legal to leave unpaid work and business invoices? ...


Unfortunately yes - in fact that is the whole point. You take all the money out of the company and then declare it bankrupt, leaving all the company's creditors to fend for themselves.

Then you set up another company and do the same thing again.

That's why it's extremely important for Proz not to allow anyone to do this.


Jennifer Forbes
José Henrique Lamensdorf
Thao Tran
missdutch
 


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