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Companies appearing in the freelancer directory - possible discrimination against freelancers?
Thread poster: Vesna Zivcic

Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 00:38
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
the FAQ on corporate membership Feb 18, 2007

can be found at

http://www.proz.com/faq/corp_mem

regarding point 2, I don't mind that much the benefit #1 - being distinguished with a special corporate ribbon.

But the selling point right next to it: corporate members gain the commercial benefit of inclusion in the corporate membership directories - seems to backfire mega.

I love the d
... See more
can be found at

http://www.proz.com/faq/corp_mem

regarding point 2, I don't mind that much the benefit #1 - being distinguished with a special corporate ribbon.

But the selling point right next to it: corporate members gain the commercial benefit of inclusion in the corporate membership directories - seems to backfire mega.

I love the dialectics of the situation - free-lancers and the rest of the world in one pot -. But does it really have to be in my own back yard!?

[Edited at 2007-02-18 19:59]
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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:38
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
With all due respect to your concerns Feb 18, 2007

which I feel are justified - as Klaus wrote, we do all run a business, but not necessarilly are corpotations, would you please stop the discussion and wait for the reaction of site staff?
It is Sunday here and there, so the first clarification of this possible glitch might be expected tomorrow.

I think not big harm will be done, if we just wait a day or two. The business will continue for us, I'm sure.

Thank you for your understanding
Regards
Jerzy


 

Irene N
United States
Local time: 17:38
English to Russian
+ ...
Yes, this is NOT fun Feb 18, 2007

Proz will become a place where direct corporate clients will be contacting agencies and hooking up with them because an agency can always convince them that they are better equipped, fully redundant, multi-everything under one roof, 24/7/365 etc. In fact, for all the above reasons U.S. corporations and big businesses undoubtedly prefer agencies. Then the same agencies will turn around and outsource the same jobs to us for a fraction of a price. Nothing new but is it fair to do all this within th... See more
Proz will become a place where direct corporate clients will be contacting agencies and hooking up with them because an agency can always convince them that they are better equipped, fully redundant, multi-everything under one roof, 24/7/365 etc. In fact, for all the above reasons U.S. corporations and big businesses undoubtedly prefer agencies. Then the same agencies will turn around and outsource the same jobs to us for a fraction of a price. Nothing new but is it fair to do all this within the same site, which also solicits individual membership fees? A fee for a permission to pick up leftovers?

This may be a legitimate way to run business but then this is no longer a freelance translator site by any merit. Access to direct clients will be pretty much blocked. A freelance translator site should be promoting end service providers, not some middleman taking lion's share. No outsourser pre-screening, no rate control, no legal tools to ensure payments. Site and agency benefits are all clear, ours remain to be seen...

As of today I am the agency-only freelancer but I am also "a few good agencies only" freelancer. Considering all I read about the swarms of cheap agencies and "agencies" foraging here, the trend is deadly. In fact, so deadly that I personally might start re-thinking my business practices. The times when the agencies have been getting their FAIR share are sliding into the oblivion. I grab on to mine like crazy yet I strongly suspect that close and at least decade-long personal friendships and my full devotion are the only things that make it possible to this day. I mean rates, not letting me get away with cr...p:-).

Are we to anticipate the fate of private family practitioners eliminated by HMOs? Do we want to help and accelerate the process?
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Stephanie Wloch  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:38
Member (2003)
Dutch to German
Some kind of bug Feb 18, 2007

I have already noticed it the day before yesterday, but did not care much, because I knew that the corporate membership is a new item and in some kind of testing phase.

They appear a bit like foreign bodies (Fremdkörper) in the freelancers lounge and I suppose that some of the corporate members are really not glad to pop in that pushy.;-)
Let's have a little patience until the staff can comment on this.
Regards
Steffi


 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:38
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Let us discuss this further after final clarification from Henry Feb 18, 2007

Can you please agree with me, that this will be the best way?

Thanks
Jerzy


 

Patricia Lane  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 00:38
French to English
+ ...
can butter toast on both sides Feb 18, 2007

It can get really slippery to hold.

Who are Proz' clients (no, no it is not a dumb question): corporations/end clients/agencies or independent professionals.
Their vested interests are not the same.

You can't be all things to all people, long term it does not work.

Unless my math is way off (always possible), 1 paying corporate member = 6 paying independent professionals.

With members not renewing, users not signing up, and many folks dis
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It can get really slippery to hold.

Who are Proz' clients (no, no it is not a dumb question): corporations/end clients/agencies or independent professionals.
Their vested interests are not the same.

You can't be all things to all people, long term it does not work.

Unless my math is way off (always possible), 1 paying corporate member = 6 paying independent professionals.

With members not renewing, users not signing up, and many folks disgruntled all around, it would be interesting to see at the end of 2007 what Proz' balance sheet looks like.

Patricia
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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:38
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
In memoriam
Where am I (in freelancer directory)? Feb 18, 2007

OK, I am not continuing the argument as such (but count me among those against). But although I never normally use the Freelancer Directory except on a search-by-name basis, I just did so, to see what this was all about. I put in a search for a Russian-English translator for mechanical engineering, which brought up about 90 paying members, but not including myself. Was I deleted automatically because the query came from me? Or am I really not listed? If not, why not?

 

Deborah do Carmo  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 23:38
Dutch to English
+ ...
Support ticket Feb 18, 2007

Jack Doughty wrote:

Was I deleted automatically because the query came from me? Or am I really not listed? If not, why not?


No Jack, you should come up in the search even if you are the enquirer - if I were you I'd submit a support ticket.


 

Klaus Herrmann  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:38
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Direct clients CAN choose between companies of different size. Feb 18, 2007

IreneN wrote:
Proz will become a place where direct corporate clients will be contacting agencies and hooking up with them because an agency can always convince them that they are better equipped, ...
That's not true. A small company where work is done on premises has much to offer, and can succesfully competete against bigger companies. But they need to be perceived by prospects as companies, not as some seccond-class option.


 

Mira Stepanovic  Identity Verified
Serbia
Local time: 00:38
English to Serbian
+ ...
Same in my language pairs Feb 18, 2007

When I searched for freelancers in one of my working language pairs, exactly the same list of companies appeared over the entire visible area of the newly opened window.
When searching in another working pair, there was NOTHING except that list. Scrolling down showed nothing but blank space.
Suppose that a direct client (or agency) was looking for a freelancer (and if he wasn't he wouldn't find himself looking at that window at all I guess). All that he is offered are companies, (no
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When I searched for freelancers in one of my working language pairs, exactly the same list of companies appeared over the entire visible area of the newly opened window.
When searching in another working pair, there was NOTHING except that list. Scrolling down showed nothing but blank space.
Suppose that a direct client (or agency) was looking for a freelancer (and if he wasn't he wouldn't find himself looking at that window at all I guess). All that he is offered are companies, (not) working with the language pair that the client is interested in. As Brigit previously said, NO freelancers. What is he going to think? That something is wrong with the search function? That there are no freelancers working in that language pair? That there are no freelancers meeting the criteria? Or maybe there should be a sign right below the list of companies: "OK, OK, if you are really NOT looking for companies, please scroll down to view the list of freelancers." Of course, this applies only to the case when such a list exists on that page.

Mira
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ZZZZZZ (X)
Local time: 00:38
German to English
HAH-ha, you paid for a membership Feb 18, 2007

Sorry to be so direct. I didn't mean it.

I'm sure Henry will weasel ... er ... explain everything to everyone's satisfaction.


 

Patricia Rosas  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:38
Spanish to English
+ ...
In memoriam
Where am I, too? Feb 18, 2007

Jack Doughty wrote:

OK, I am not continuing the argument as such (but count me among those against). But although I never normally use the Freelancer Directory except on a search-by-name basis, I just did so, to see what this was all about. I put in a search for a Russian-English translator for mechanical engineering, which brought up about 90 paying members, but not including myself. Was I deleted automatically because the query came from me? Or am I really not listed? If not, why not?


Ditto. A few weeks (months?) ago, I remember that someone noted that they didn't understand the criteria for the ordering in which freelancers appear. At that time, I couldn't find myself, but I let it go.

Just now, I did a search in Spanish-->English, for "Social Sciences" (my specialty field), and I got a message that there were no entries matching that specification. But there was a list of over 5,000 people, and I wasn't even in the first 200 or so of those, although I'm in the top-ten of the KudoZ scorers for mylanguage pair in the past three months.

So, given the discussion above, I would like to get clarity on this. How does a freelancer ensure that his or her name will appear in a list when an outsider is seeking a translator?


 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:38
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Now I'm really getting the impression you don't read or do not want to understand Feb 18, 2007

Once again - please give the site staff the chance to explain, before you go further with this discussion.

This is an ultimative request from my side - please stop here now. Don't force me to close this thread until Henry or someone else from ProZ is online.
As everywhere in your life, both parties must be heard.
This is what I now ask of you: wait and give the other party the chance to clarify.

I'm online for at least one hour more - so I will see what happ
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Once again - please give the site staff the chance to explain, before you go further with this discussion.

This is an ultimative request from my side - please stop here now. Don't force me to close this thread until Henry or someone else from ProZ is online.
As everywhere in your life, both parties must be heard.
This is what I now ask of you: wait and give the other party the chance to clarify.

I'm online for at least one hour more - so I will see what happens. Please show your maturity and stop now.

Thank you
Jerzy
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Siegfried Armbruster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:38
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
"Stop it" is a good idea Feb 18, 2007

Jerzy Czopik wrote:


As everywhere in your life, both parties must be heard.
This is what I now ask of you: wait and give the other party the chance to clarify.

..........Please show your maturity and stop now.

Thank you
Jerzy


Why is this a one way street, why did nobody explain BEFORE it was implemented?

This is exactly my point. Henry and staff had all the time to explain to us (the other party in your equation).

And you are right, I do expect some maturity in how this site is handled. Sorry but I'm really getting angry now.

Siegfried


 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:38
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Well, I see a big add announcig this since some days Feb 18, 2007

but that's surely not what you demand.
I must admit, that I hadn't time recently to follow all new developments on the site, but nevertheless I'm quite sure there was a thread announcig that.
With a very small effort on searching I found that post from Henry. It was a week ago...
There are many issues to sort out as we move forward in introducing student and corporate membership types, including delineation among the membership types, requirements for qualifying for each, etc. (Suggestions have also been put forward that additional membership types be considered, such as "non-industry / layperson", and we are not ruling out such additions in the future.)


Now we are surely facing an issue, which has to be sorted out.

And please bear in mind, that ProZ has grown over what we know from the past, where the world was very easy. This easy world (this old ProZ) will never come back, similar to what happened any of us in the past. We shall look into the futre and try to develop it together. Constructive criticism is surely a way of doing so. Just complainig, as many people prefer to do around the site is neither constructive nor initiates any changes. Complaining is easy, propose solutions not. So if you (no one adressed in person, a general remark) are complaining, propose a solution - anyone shall start with himself. I for one do not complain, when I don't have the slightest idea how could it be made better - I mean now not only ProZ, but my life in general. So start complaining if you have ideas how to make things better.

Regards
Jerzy

[Edited at 2007-02-18 21:12]


 
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