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Is the Proz Certified P now being equated with credentials?
Thread poster: writeaway

writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
May 21, 2009

I was quite surprised to see one or two jobs now being offered with the restriction:

The outsourcer has chosen to restrict quoting on this job to those who:
... have credentials reported in this pair or have a Certified PRO certificate

Since this has occurred more than once, does it mean that this is a bundled restriction (ie the P and credentials can't be selected separately)? What about people who have a P certificate based on a different language pair? Are they free to bid anywhere?




[Edited at 2009-05-21 12:16 GMT]


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Lawyer-Linguist  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 04:40
Dutch to English
+ ...
Good question May 21, 2009

If it is a bundled restriction, it's a very disappointing development for those of us who have 'real' credentials.

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John Rawlins  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:40
Spanish to English
+ ...
Real credentials and real experience May 21, 2009

Lawyer-Linguist wrote:

If it is a bundled restriction, it's a very disappointing development for those of us who have 'real' credentials.


I can understand your disappointment - yet it is an encouraging development for those of us who have 'real' experience to offer.


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Maciek Drobka  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 05:40
Member (2006)
English to Polish
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Bang on, John! May 21, 2009

John Rawlins wrote:

is an encouraging development for those of us who have 'real' experience to offer. [/quote]

My thoughts exactly!

M


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The Misha
Local time: 23:40
Russian to English
+ ...
It is not a meaningful credential. P'ed or not, quite a few of the proud holders thereof May 21, 2009

... still cannot do the job, if one is to judge by the oft-ridiculous KudoZ questions regularly posted by these "professionals". Thanks but no, thanks, I'd rather not be bundled together under the same designation with any of those.

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Lawyer-Linguist  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 04:40
Dutch to English
+ ...
Interesting May 21, 2009

John Rawlins wrote:

Lawyer-Linguist wrote:

If it is a bundled restriction, it's a very disappointing development for those of us who have 'real' credentials.


I can understand your disappointment - yet it is an encouraging development for those of us who have 'real' experience to offer.


Well, funnily I have both, and still can't help but feel disappointed. But perhaps that's because I actually have both (or, then again, maybe I'm just difficult to please).

Obviously site developments can't please everyone, but if this bundling is taking place, it's at least potentially sending out a message that these certified Pro thingamajigs are comparable to genuine credentials.

(And yes, I know the credentials per se are no guarantee, and that experience counts, but that is not the argument here).


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 23:40
SITE FOUNDER
They are not bundled, the decision is left to the outsourcer May 21, 2009

The decision is left to the preference of the job poster. Most outsourcers don't put any restrictions of this sort. Among those who place restrictions of this sort, some require a credential (without accepting the P), others choose to accept either a credential or the P.

In short, if a message is being sent (and I don't think it would be safe to conclude that one is), it is being sent by outsourcers.


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Lawyer-Linguist  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 04:40
Dutch to English
+ ...
Not sure I understand ... May 21, 2009

Are you saying outsourcers have clear options to choose from at the time they place the restriction or are you saying of those who choose this restriction, some may just decide not to accept the "P" if someone with just that applies?

TIA for clarifying
Debs




[Edited at 2009-05-21 14:18 GMT]


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:40
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Check out the job posting form, it will be clear immediately May 21, 2009

Frankly, there is a very simple way of finding out what is happening, so I am not really sure why would anybody jump to conclusions based on assumptions.

Go to the main navigation menu (top right), then choose Jobs -> Post a job

The job posting form is displayed, and if you scroll down you can see what kind of fields are there, what is required, what is optional, and what is set by default.

Under the section heading:
Service provider requirements (optional)

you will see "Professional credentials", and the three options are:

Must have reported credentials or a Certified PRO certificate.
Must have reported credentials
Not required

The "Not required" option is the default setting.

So, if an outsourcer decides to require the Certified PRO certificate, the only way is to select the first option, in which case everybody who has reported credentials will also be included. There is no way to require the red P and exclude people that are non-P with reported credentials.


So, to answer the last question, yes, the outsourcers have clear options at the time they place the restriction. (See the options above.)

Katalin


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writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for the explanation May 21, 2009

Henry D wrote:

The decision is left to the preference of the job poster. Most outsourcers don't put any restrictions of this sort. Among those who place restrictions of this sort, some require a credential (without accepting the P), others choose to accept either a credential or the P.

In short, if a message is being sent (and I don't think it would be safe to conclude that one is), it is being sent by outsourcers.


Thanks for explaining it Henry.
P


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John Rawlins  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:40
Spanish to English
+ ...
Another sensible reply May 21, 2009

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

Frankly, there is a very simple way of finding out what is happening, so I am not really sure why would anybody jump to conclusions based on assumptions.

Katalin


Yet again Katalin - how very sensible of you to have checked and reported back in detail.

Thanks.


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writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Why would someone who never posts jobs check out a job posting forum? May 21, 2009

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

Frankly, there is a very simple way of finding out what is happening, so I am not really sure why would anybody jump to conclusions based on assumptions.

Go to the main navigation menu (top right), then choose Jobs -> Post a job

The job posting form is displayed, and if you scroll down you can see what kind of fields are there, what is required, what is optional, and what is set by default.

Under the section heading:
Service provider requirements (optional)

you will see "Professional credentials", and the three options are:

Must have reported credentials or a Certified PRO certificate.
Must have reported credentials
Not required

The "Not required" option is the default setting.

So, if an outsourcer decides to require the Certified PRO certificate, the only way is to select the first option, in which case everybody who has reported credentials will also be included. There is no way to require the red P and exclude people that are non-P with reported credentials.


So, to answer the last question, yes, the outsourcers have clear options at the time they place the restriction. (See the options above.)

Katalin


Sorry, but it never occurred to me to check out the job posting forum. I'm a translator, not an outsourcer. I didn't even know there was such a forum, for that matter.
And fwiw, I was asking a question, not jumping to any conclusions.


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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:40
French to English
One minor detail May 21, 2009

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

Frankly, there is a very simple way of finding out what is happening, ...

Go to the main navigation menu (top right), then choose Jobs -> Post a job

you will see ... options

So, to answer the last question, yes, the outsourcers have clear options at the time they place the restriction.


I agree entirely with your first point, and indeed I toyed with the idea of suggesting that those with a mind to know visit the relevant page.

One thing that held me back is the fact that I know from experience that the options displayed are not always universally available when it comes to the nitty-gritty of actually hitting the send button to post the job.
For example, the system will sometimes force you to make jobs available to members only for the first 12 hours despite your intention to make it up for grabs for all and sundry from the off (something about the number of people meeting the criteria).

While I'm reasonably confident that such a restriction is unlikely to apply in this specific case, I just felt it is worth pointing out that just because an option is apparently available on the screen, it does not mean it is available in reality, universally, for every single job posted, and that therefore the stuff on the screen cannot necessarily be relied upon 100% as an explanation for how it works.


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Lawyer-Linguist  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 04:40
Dutch to English
+ ...
Thank you May 21, 2009

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

So, to answer the last question, yes, the outsourcers have clear options at the time they place the restriction. (See the options above.)

Katalin


Thank you, firstly, for going to the trouble of answering the question. You're quite correct, the information was readily available all along.

I'm off now to find some ointment to rub on these bruised knuckles.

[Edited at 2009-05-21 17:07 GMT]


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Madeleine MacRae Klintebo  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:40
Swedish to English
+ ...
Hmmm May 21, 2009

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

Must have reported credentials or a Certified PRO certificate.
Must have reported credentials
Not required

The "Not required" option is the default setting.



The order and wording of these choices means that a new user, for example a direct client, is likely to assume a PRO certificate adds some kind of value. Yes, I can see the "or", but how many potential clients will do the same?

Most likely, they will see it as "best" that translator has both a credential AND a P. Just having some kind of proper credential will, in their eyes, be second best. And since they don't read the "or" they will assume that all matches have both.

[Edited at 2009-05-21 20:19 GMT]


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