Restricting to wrong native language
Thread poster: Arnaud HERVE

Arnaud HERVE  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 15:50
English to French
+ ...
Jun 18, 2009

I have several times observed recently that job posters make the mistake of restricting their jobs to native speakers only, but native speakers of the source language.

Obviously they mean native speakers of the target language. They check the wrong box.

I would like only the target button to be presented by default, and then an expendable for other languages, in the 0.01% cases it can happen.


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Elisabete Cunha  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 14:50
Member (2006)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Totally agree Jun 18, 2009

It happens a lot. And it doesn't make any sense at all. I sometimes can not quote on projects within my language pairs and areas of expertise just because the job is restricted to native speakers of the source language... And we can clearly see that the job poster made a mistake without even noticing it.


Arnaud HERVE wrote:

I have several times observed recently that job posters make the mistake of restricting their jobs to native speakers only, but native speakers of the source language.

Obviously they mean native speakers of the target language. They check the wrong box.

I would like only the target button to be presented by default, and then an expendable for other languages, in the 0.01% cases it can happen.


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Steven Capsuto  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:50
Spanish to English
+ ...
It might not be a mistake Jun 18, 2009

Some clients really do want a native speaker of the source language, especially for culturally-bound texts or other material where there are nuances likely to be lost on anyone outside the culture and language.

The next step varies from client to client. Some then hire a native speaker of the target language to fix the style. Others don't, especially if it's for in-house use and substance is more important than style.

[Edited at 2009-06-18 19:36 GMT]


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Laurent KRAULAND  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 15:50
French to German
+ ...
Is there an opportunity to review? Jun 18, 2009

My question so far, is the job poster asked to check all his entries twice (for example)?

Laurent K.


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Tina Vonhof  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 07:50
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Easy to prevent Jun 18, 2009

This problem could easily be prevented if outsourcers actually had to fill in what native language they are looking for.

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Arnaud HERVE  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 15:50
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Interface Jun 18, 2009

I want a box with the TARGET language by default, and for the - exceptional - occasions that Steven mentions, it should be enough to add a "change" button.

By the way I prefer that box to be already checked by default, because it is obvious pro standards (!). If the outsourcer wants to specify "No, it's ok if my translator is not a native", that's some kind of responsibility that this site could maybe not encourage. Tolerate but not encourage.

In the present situation, the "right" translators are compelled to open a support ticket, which unduly loads the staff's work.

During the handling of the support ticket, the non natives are given an opportunity to quote first, which is not a good method either for a site like this.

UNLESS the outsourcer really wants to select the translator in the way contrary to everybody else, of course. I never do that, personally.



[Edited at 2009-06-18 20:29 GMT]


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Uldis Liepkalns  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 16:50
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
Never assume anything (without possessing full information) Jun 18, 2009

Sometimes when, say, translating (Lithuanian, Latvian, Finnish or whatever) legal documents into English, it is important the translator is acquainted with source country Laws and practises, not the completely different English Legal system... This is just one example, but I could write a page of such examples when it is more important for the translator to understand the source in nuances, while a perfect command of the target language is not so important.

So - maybe sometimes outsourcers are just negligent, but NOT ALWAYS.

Uldis


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writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Definitely don't assume it's a mistake Jun 19, 2009

There was an Nl-En job the other day that was restricted to Dutch natives. It was definitely not a mistake. The Dutch owner of the agency firmly believes that Dutch natives are the best translators to use for Nl-En translations and she is far from being a unique case. (She feels that native Anglos are good enough for proofreading, as long as they don't change the actual translation. Or at least that's what she tells them when they apply to the agency).
I've seen such jobs in other language pairs too. The reasoning often used to justify this is the notion that target language natives can't possibly have enough knowledge of the source language to pick up on all the nuances, which I personally find a rather insulting insinuation.
In any case, I never automatically assume there's mistake in a job offer restricted to source language natives only.


[Edited at 2009-06-19 10:03 GMT]


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chica nueva
Local time: 01:50
Chinese to English
A somewhat similar discussion (?) Jun 20, 2009

Hello Arnaud

Interesting. You are not the only peer to have commented on this recently:

http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_job_systems/136172-why_would_an_agency_requesting_english_into_spanish_want_native_english_speakers_to_quote.html


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Arnaud HERVE  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 15:50
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Ian an Jun 21, 2009

It still seems to me common sense to allow by default translators who are target natives to bid, and also to relieve the burden of the staff receiving support tickets.

I don't know... perhaps I don't have natural common sense...


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Arnaud HERVE  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 15:50
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
IT + FR = SP Jul 9, 2009

Today I saw an IT>FR job restricted to SP native speakers.

It cannot be a manager's choice, imho. Default must be set on target language.


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