Turnkey thread locked: explanation, please
Thread poster: Patricia Lane

Patricia Lane  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 08:54
French to English
+ ...
Jul 20, 2009

What rule was violated that could possibly legitimize that thread being locked all of a sudden?

Have dissent or professional discussions about a subject that affects our industry become bases for unilateral thread closures?

Patricia


 

PRen (X)
Canada
Local time: 03:54
French to English
+ ...
Good luck Jul 20, 2009

Patricia Lane wrote:

What rule was violated that could possibly legitimize that thread being locked all of a sudden?

Have dissent or professional discussions about a subject that affects our industry become bases for unilateral thread closures?

Patricia


I tried to open a new thread (pointing out that Henry didn't give me a chance to answer his questions), but it got bounced, as follows:

Dear PRen,

This message is to inform you that your post "How the heck
can I answer your questions if you close the thread?" has
been removed from public view because it was not in line
with forum rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/6#6

Once a thread has been locked or hidden by ProZ.com staff
members or moderators, discussion on the same topic should
not be resumed in a different or new thread.


 

Deborah do Carmo  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 07:54
Dutch to English
+ ...
Well, well, well .... Jul 20, 2009

... why am I not surprised?

There was an ongoing discussion, closing the thread isn't going to make go away.


 

Helen Shiner  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:54
Member (2008)
German to English
+ ...
I really don't understand Jul 20, 2009

why members are being treated in this way. Police state or immaturity?

 

Helen Shiner  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:54
Member (2008)
German to English
+ ...
It is surely Jul 20, 2009

to everyone's benefit if these issues are sorted out professionally and swiftly. We all want Proz.com to do well and we wouldn't be here if we didn't think there was much good to be had from it, but there are legitimate concerns that await resolution.

 

Uldis Liepkalns  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 09:54
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
Hi Henry Jul 20, 2009

remember me saying years ago that sweeping things under the carpet doesn't make them disappear?

Uldis


 

KSL Berlin  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 07:54
German to English
+ ...
Does not exhibit credibility Jul 20, 2009

Locking a thread in which a civil, factual discussion of legitimate legal and business concerns is being conducted does not project a serious, credible image for a business.

I find this all very unnecessary, immature and unfortunate. I have derived great benefit from this platform over the years and defended it from inappropriate criticism in other media, but I cannot in any way condone or defend what is happening here.

The legal concerns are very real, and the desire t
... See more
Locking a thread in which a civil, factual discussion of legitimate legal and business concerns is being conducted does not project a serious, credible image for a business.

I find this all very unnecessary, immature and unfortunate. I have derived great benefit from this platform over the years and defended it from inappropriate criticism in other media, but I cannot in any way condone or defend what is happening here.

The legal concerns are very real, and the desire to tinker with new toyZ will not satisfy my local tax authorities with regard to issues like invoicing. Laws still apply to "experiments".
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Anne-Marie Grant (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:54
French to English
+ ...
If certain forum discussions are only open to P badge holders Jul 20, 2009

rather than all paying members, it is inevitable that feelings of 'us and them' will arise. Now, a prematurely closed thread is going to add to the genuine fear and suspicion that there is something unsavoury going on. Are the P badge holders going to be allowed to continue the discussion behind closed doors?

[Edited at 2009-07-20 23:05 GMT]


 

ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 02:54
English to French
+ ...
Henry says... Jul 20, 2009

Henry D wrote:

As a more general point, PRen and others, if you have specific issues with the way an idea is being pursued, it is more helpful when you express those concerns in such a way that Jason, or whoever is working on a given project, can act on them. Statements like the one above, well, they just don't get anyone anywhere.

Before Henry wrote this, I wrote:
The only way I can see this concept working is:

- If the translator could invoice ProZ and ProZ could invoice the end client
- If these jobs placed qualifications and other criteria before the red P criteria
- If the translator could see the text before deciding to accept the job and if s/he could quote on it (not all text is worth the same rate even if the translator is the same)
- If ProZ weren't the one to decide whether a translation deemed unsatisfactory by the client really is unsatisfactory
- If ProZ didn't unilaterally decide to reduce or cancel payment to the translator in case of a dispute
- If ProZ was able to safeguard confidential information, which is currently at debate

I guess Henry's reply to that is to close the thread. I am afraid no rug is big enough for this one...


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:54
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
The P badge people raised the same concerns Jul 20, 2009

Anne-Marie Grant wrote:

Are the P badge holders going to be allowed to continue the discussion behind closed doors?


The thread is still open in the private P forum area. We are allowed (as of now) to continue the discussion "behind closed doors".
However, before anybody jumps to the wrong conclusions, I want to say that many P badge holders repeatedly raised the very same serious concerns as people did here. Those concerns were dealt with pretty much the same way as here.
The project was made public without addressing those issues.

(One more note: A few days after Jason tossed out the idea on the P-forum, we finally learned that the project was not exclusively developed for the P-network. Then it was immediately questioned why the discussion is not conducted in a public forum thread. So, dear non-P colleagues, please do not assume ill faith on the part of your P-badge colleagues. It is not something we "cooked up" and wanted to keep it behind closed doors.)

Katalin


 

Marinus Vesseur  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 23:54
English to Dutch
+ ...
The way ProZ is going Jul 20, 2009

.. I have derived great benefit from this platform over the years and defended it from inappropriate criticism in other media, but I cannot in any way condone or defend what is happening here...


Amen to that!

And then there was the moderator issue, the certification issue, the turnkey translation issue, the close collaboration with SDL, the general direction toward a service for the translation 'industry', etc. etc.

There are several indispensible features to this site: the Jobs, the Blue Board, the Forums, Kudoz questions, the Profiles, the Websites for members, and a few more.

But why the **** is there continually being tinkered with? And it always seems to be in the direction away from a community. What is the true aim of this all? Do the founders even know what drives them?

How sad to see this great translators' community be turned into a service tool for the industry. ProZ needs some advisors that will help it not to lose its 'voter base'. Then again: the advice is there. There just isn't much listening going on. Too bad.


 

Jared Tabor
Local time: 03:54
SITE STAFF
Why threads are locked Jul 21, 2009

Hello all,

To answer Patricia's question, forum threads may be locked by moderators or site staff when it is felt that the positive, results-oriented atmosphere of a discussion has been lost. There is also a specific rule to accompany this, http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/6#6 which states that when a topic has been locked, discussion should not be resumed via other threads. Thanks
... See more
Hello all,

To answer Patricia's question, forum threads may be locked by moderators or site staff when it is felt that the positive, results-oriented atmosphere of a discussion has been lost. There is also a specific rule to accompany this, http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/6#6 which states that when a topic has been locked, discussion should not be resumed via other threads. Thanks for your understanding in this matter.

Best regards,

Jared
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Turnkey thread locked: explanation, please

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