Turn-key translations - attempt to reinitiate a locked discussion
Thread poster: Ali Bayraktar

Ali Bayraktar  Identity Verified
Turkey
Member (2007)
English to Turkish
+ ...
Jul 20, 2009

Again, anaother initiative based on the so-called Certified Pro Network started.
I think the latest announcement regarding the turn-key translations known by the actors of this network long time ago. As always the rest of the community informed by the last-minute goal.
And I am sure that there is not any existing word against itching palm.

So I will ask several questions to the site and to the actors of this network.

Questions for the Site:
- At the be
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Again, anaother initiative based on the so-called Certified Pro Network started.
I think the latest announcement regarding the turn-key translations known by the actors of this network long time ago. As always the rest of the community informed by the last-minute goal.
And I am sure that there is not any existing word against itching palm.

So I will ask several questions to the site and to the actors of this network.

Questions for the Site:
- At the beginning of this program you have assured the rest of the community that this initiative is an optional thing and won't effect the rest of the community; So how can you explain this so called turn key translation thing?

- As far as I see the turn-key translations initiative would use the translators among the certified pro network; so you are creating an additional income source for the people who do not differ from the rest of the paying community in this site; (I mean all members invest the same amount but you gave to the members of the certified pro network an inequal advantage to earn more, you use them, employ them) Is that your site's policy?

-How can you assure the 100% quality (on the turn key page) as you are not an linguistic authority?
-And there is another thing- and the most important- you began to certify the translators but who certified you that this site eligible to select the right human resource in this industry?


Questions for the members of the Certified Pro Network:

- When we look in the forums, we will see a lot of topics which shares opinions, problems, inequalities in our industry or ideas for making translation business much more better. So my question about this; do you really thing that this Certified Pro Network serves for or makes our industry better? By being an human resouce in such turnkey project would you help all translation business?


Those are my questions;

As for my opinion:

I am 31 years old. And have enough life experience in this world to know what is fair and what is unfair. I think all of those initiatives began without consensus and are imposed on the community. So they are unfair and bring damage the whole translation world.

My words for all initiatives which select people as apples and use them just for own benefit.
Stop it!





[Edited at 2009-07-20 23:15 GMT]

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2009-07-21 04:18 GMT]
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Riccardo Schiaffino  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:55
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
Could you please explain yourself? Jul 20, 2009

M. Ali Bayraktar wrote:
And I am sure that there is not any existing word against itching palm.


I'm completely baffled: what does that mean?


so you are creating an additional income source for the people who do not differ from the rest of the paying community in this site


Considering the kind of rates and amounts that have been mentioned, I wouldn't call that an "income source"


Questions for the members of the Certified Pro Network:

- When we look in the forums, we will see a lot of topics which shares opinions, problems, inequalities in our industry or ideas for making translation business much more better. So my question about this; do you really thing that this Certified Pro Network serves for or makes our industry better? By being an human resouce in such turnkey project would you help all translation business?


This very much begs the question whether us so-called "Certified Pro" would actually wish to participate in this project.

I doubt very much that many will.


 

Ali Bayraktar  Identity Verified
Turkey
Member (2007)
English to Turkish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes, Jul 20, 2009

Riccardo Schiaffino wrote:
I'm completely baffled: what does that mean?

Sorry for my English
I mean a strong hunger for earning money!
The only reason that lies under those initiatives (Site's aim).


 

KSL Berlin  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 11:55
German to English
+ ...
Exit, stage left.... Jul 20, 2009

Though I have been called a drama queen, I'm not sure I qualify as an actor, Ali.

If you have followed the various public threads on the Turncoat Translations experiment, you'll see that - aside from the uninteresting economic aspect of the arrangement - there are serious legal concerns which would prevent participation by many persons in various jurisdictions who are concerned with avoiding uncomfortable tax audits.

Don't feel that you're missing out on any opportuniti
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Though I have been called a drama queen, I'm not sure I qualify as an actor, Ali.

If you have followed the various public threads on the Turncoat Translations experiment, you'll see that - aside from the uninteresting economic aspect of the arrangement - there are serious legal concerns which would prevent participation by many persons in various jurisdictions who are concerned with avoiding uncomfortable tax audits.

Don't feel that you're missing out on any opportunities here. You are not.

If you have objections to this half-baked program in its current form or think that it was very poorly thought out and is potentially very harmful to the site and any individuals involved with turning illegal keys, that is quite understandable, and your concerns are shared by many.

I'm sure that Wise Powers will eventually sort all this out, though unfortunately they'll probably succeed in damaging their reputations further by doing so. The basic concept of the feature is perhaps interesting, but the execution is simply unacceptable and uninteresting even as a proof of concept. A concept has to be worth proving, and that requires a bit of careful thought behind it.
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KSL Berlin  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 11:55
German to English
+ ...
That's the pupose of a company, really Jul 20, 2009

M. Ali Bayraktar wrote:
Sorry for my English
I mean a strong hunger for earning money!
The only reason that lies under those initiatives (Site's aim).


Nothing wrong with making a profit. That's what we're all in business for. And I wish ProZ much success and much profit in well-structured, properly considered, legal and ethical transactions.

The problem is that not all of those adjectives apply to some of the things I have observed over the past year. I think that there is no great wickedness in most of the intentions I perceive - except perhaps the heavy-handed censorship - but I do hope that certain fundamental issues get reconsidered carefully. This is a site which has been very good to me in many ways, and I have a great affection for many of the fine colleagues I have met through it. But none of us can rest on our laurels. We must all work to improve and learn from mistakes.


 

The Misha
Local time: 06:55
Russian to English
+ ...
What are you so pumped up about? Jul 21, 2009

May I remind you that, just as Kevin stated above, this is a private commercial venture - not a community (whatever that means) - that is out to make a buck off you, me and all the others. That's the way any business works, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it per se. It's another matter that some of their money making moves may be perceived as unfair or unethical. By all means, let them know, but don't lump us all together here. Personally, I don't even have a say in this, I am a freel... See more
May I remind you that, just as Kevin stated above, this is a private commercial venture - not a community (whatever that means) - that is out to make a buck off you, me and all the others. That's the way any business works, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it per se. It's another matter that some of their money making moves may be perceived as unfair or unethical. By all means, let them know, but don't lump us all together here. Personally, I don't even have a say in this, I am a freeloading user myself, and for a good reason. In any case, if you don't like something, just vote with your wallet, no one is taking that option away from you. But above all, take it easy, man, or you'll have a heart attack. You seem way too young for that, it really isn't worth it. Cheers!Collapse


 

Gerard de Noord  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 12:55
Member (2003)
German to Dutch
+ ...
Translation as a commodity Jul 21, 2009

Kevin Lossner wrote:

I'm sure that Wise Powers will eventually sort all this out, though unfortunately they'll probably succeed in damaging their reputations further by doing so. The basic concept of the feature is perhaps interesting, but the execution is simply unacceptable and uninteresting even as a proof of concept. A concept has to be worth proving, and that requires a bit of careful thought behind it.


Dear Kevin,

The basic concept of this feature is commodifying translation jobs: pay us 100 dollar and you'll get your translation, without the hassle. It's bizarre that the decision makers over here have never thought about invoicing and VAT during their tests. After all our complaints will have been listened to and once all issues will have been ironed out, those of us who'll have opted in will have been commoditized.

This is not the way Proz.com should test new ideas. This is not the way Proz.com should go.

Regards,
Gerard


 

Ali Bayraktar  Identity Verified
Turkey
Member (2007)
English to Turkish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Imagine that Jul 21, 2009

The Misha wrote:

May I remind you that, just as Kevin stated above, this is a private commercial venture - not a community (whatever that means) - that is out to make a buck off you, me and all the others. That's the way any business works, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it per se. It's another matter that some of their money making moves may be perceived as unfair or unethical. By all means, let them know, but don't lump us all together here. Personally, I don't even have a say in this, I am a freeloading user myself, and for a good reason. In any case, if you don't like something, just vote with your wallet, no one is taking that option away from you. But above all, take it easy, man, or you'll have a heart attack. You seem way too young for that, it really isn't worth it. Cheers!


there is a holiday camp where all clients are golfers. they came here in order to communicate with each other and play golf with each other.
And after several years this holiday camp creates its own golf team in order to participate in tournements. Do you think it is a normal behaviour?

This place should serve us as a workplace but not as an employer. But the site instead of providing us a workplace it aims to use, to organize us, and get its own share from this market.

Now, we are just users of this place and we just face with; locking the threads, imposing own rules with own interpretation. But what will be after 3 years when a monopol in the industry created? I can say what will be: Jared and Henry will dictate your rate for yourself or direct the clients as they wish.

And all those who participated in such initiatives will carry responsiblity in future.

That's what I see from those developments.


 

Ali Bayraktar  Identity Verified
Turkey
Member (2007)
English to Turkish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
You are right in some degree Jul 21, 2009

Kevin Lossner wrote:
Nothing wrong with making a profit. That's what we're all in business for. And I wish ProZ much success and much profit in well-structured, properly considered, legal and ethical transactions.


I agree and I am not against it. But not under the name of ProZ.com. Such initiatives should be organized in other site.
They may invite all P-badges or translators who will participate in turn-key to another site and do there whatever they wish. But creating double standards here unacceptable. It is not in line with the slogan "Translation workplace".


 

Henry Dotterer
Local time: 06:55
SITE FOUNDER
This is an attempt to restart a locked thread Jul 21, 2009

For those confused, I believe that M. Ali is making reference to the "turnkey translations" project that was recently discussed here: http://www.proz.com/topic/140363

M. Ali, you know the forum ground rules. It has all been said over there, so let us, as you suggest, "stop it" -- at least until there is actually something to talk about.

By the way, for those who might see this t
... See more
For those confused, I believe that M. Ali is making reference to the "turnkey translations" project that was recently discussed here: http://www.proz.com/topic/140363

M. Ali, you know the forum ground rules. It has all been said over there, so let us, as you suggest, "stop it" -- at least until there is actually something to talk about.

By the way, for those who might see this thread and conclude from my locking it that there is something secretive going on, please note my invitation at the end of the prior thread. Anyone who wants to be involved in this project is welcome to join and have all the details.
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