| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11] > | Allow site members/users to rate each job posting Thread poster: Robert Forstag
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Gudrun Wolfrath wrote:
Well, since proz is for a worlwide market I would not suggest more than 0.08 € as minimum standard. But you still don't answer me: why 0.08? Just because it is your rate?
This is not a sufficient reason. What if my rate is 0.12 and I want 0.12 as a minimum? What can you say against that?
And what can you say against people who want 0.06 as a minimum?
Explain me your objective criteria, I'd be glad to hear!
Gudrun Wolfrath wrote:
Do you think the translators who accept 0.01 € (gross) are really happy with that rate? I find it hard to imagine no matter where they live and work. The fact that you can't imagine it does not mean that it doesn't exist. There are lots of things I can't imagine, but they exist nonetheless. As a matter of fact, I remember in particular about a woman from former Yougoslavia, who reported that she'd be happy if all her clients paid 0.01 EUR. And the matter is not whether I "think" or "do not think" it to be true. If she says it, I believe her, because I have no particular reason to put her words in doubt.
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Cristina Lo Bianco wrote:
This discussion arised because of job postings offering very low rates, but actually many postings (at least in my pairs) don't offer any rate. So, setting a new evaluating tool in the job posting area might not be the right answer (the fact that an agengy gives translators the possibility to state their own rate doesn't mean that they're going to pay a "fair" rate!). I think that improving the BB system might be a better solution.
What I'd suggest to improve the BlueBoard is to allow more space for comments. The space currently allowed is sufficient when you want to say everything is fine, but definitely too small when you need to describe a bad experience.
I recently put a 1 on the BB and it was not only about saying "they pay/don't pay": they had been acting lousy all along the line, and I felt everyone ought to know that it was not only about payment. But I had to abbreviate everything so it could fit in.
By the way, here again translators should have a responsible behaviour. It's no use adding features if we don't take advantage of them. There a far too many gradings on the BB without any comment. For me, seeing a fellow translator grading 1 without any comment is almost useless, cause there are many reasons why you would not like to work again for an outsourcer, and I would like to know these reasons.
So it would be a good step if more people used the existing features, i. e. use the BB at all and not forget to add comments.
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A minimum standard might be a good thing, no matter whether your standard is higher or lower. What I hear from (European) colleagues 0.08 € is their mimimum price/word for 2009. This is, of course, not binding on anyone.
| | | | | EXCELLENT IDEA!! | Oct 16, 2009 |
Bob, thank you for taking the initiative in this matter. Somebody needed to! I can see a lot of positive feedback..as should be....and I offer my support....wholeheartedly.
I love Mike Garcia's comment! A gorgeous Spanish lady...and translator... here in Mexico always used to say: "somos prostitutos y nos vendemos al mejor postor!" Perhaps there's some truth in that..particularly when times are hard. Nonetheless, a clear line needs to be drawn and standards need to be set.
Best regar... See more Bob, thank you for taking the initiative in this matter. Somebody needed to! I can see a lot of positive feedback..as should be....and I offer my support....wholeheartedly.
I love Mike Garcia's comment! A gorgeous Spanish lady...and translator... here in Mexico always used to say: "somos prostitutos y nos vendemos al mejor postor!" Perhaps there's some truth in that..particularly when times are hard. Nonetheless, a clear line needs to be drawn and standards need to be set.
Best regards
Terry ▲ Collapse
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Aniello Scognamiglio (X) 
Germany
Local time: 16:33
English to German
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| No minimum rates, please! | Oct 16, 2009 |
Gudrun Wolfrath wrote:
What I hear from (European) colleagues 0.08 € is their mimimum price/word for 2009.
Did you ask the right colleages, Gudrun?
*European* colleages?
Of course, there is no difference between Germany and Greece or Spain and Hungary
Kidding aside. Believe me, we don't need a minimum rate. It doesn't make sense. In a global environment it's absolutely impossible to define a minimum rate. Ask 10 translators in Germany (just an example) about their minimum rates and you'll get 10 different answers. Right so.
It's up to the translators to negotiate rates with their clients. Translators should take more responsibility for their business. ProZ.com is a translation plattform for ALL translators around the globe.
In my opionion, every freelance translator should acquire basic and advanced selling and marketing skills.
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The rates indicated unter 'Jobs' show a certain trend as well.
Never mind.
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Gudrun Wolfrath wrote:
A minimum standard might be a good thing, no matter whether your standard is higher or lower. What I hear from (European) colleagues 0.08 € is their mimimum price/word for 2009.
This is probably true from quite a number of translators based in Western/Northern Europe, e.g. Germany, France, and the like. Although there are very numerous translators who permanently sell at a much lower price.
As far as I know, in Spain or Italy, 0.08 € is already a good rate, rather above average, not a minimum.
Then, I guess you consider everything laying further than Oder-Neisse to be outside Europe.
But it doesn't matter where you place Europe on the map, since ProZ is not a European Website.
Gudrun Wolfrath wrote:
This is, of course, not binding on anyone. But you did want to make it binding, that's essence of your first message, isn't it? If you fix a minimum price, it means it's binding?
Schönen Abend!
| | | | Luca Tutino
Italy
Member (2002)
English to Italian
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| Fully agree with Robert | Oct 16, 2009 |
I think that both ideas should be implemented: an automatic mechanism showing the agency rates in relation to the average in the language combination AND a subjective "like/don't like" radio button social forum style.
Both features will add useful information for us translators and improve communications without endangering free competition in any way.
The subjective appreciation should also be a useful tool for ... See more I think that both ideas should be implemented: an automatic mechanism showing the agency rates in relation to the average in the language combination AND a subjective "like/don't like" radio button social forum style.
Both features will add useful information for us translators and improve communications without endangering free competition in any way.
The subjective appreciation should also be a useful tool for the agencies.
As a matter of fact there is an objective problem in the job sytem right now, and Roberts' brilliant contribution seem to be the solution!
(As for Eleftherios Kritikakis criticism, it does not make much sense to me: following his line of reasoning there was no point in building the Blue Board feature, and even in creating ProZ.com! )
Thank you Robert!
Luca
[Edited at 2009-10-16 19:11 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| I agree 100%, Robert | Oct 16, 2009 |
Having read just about all the comments, there's not much I can add here. I did particularly like Hilary Bruce's input, for I feel the same way. However, whenever I see low rates offered, I simply ignore the posting. At the moment, I'm happy with what I charge and I do not accept any less, even if work is scarce at some point. I refuse to "prostitute" myself by accepting rubbishy rates. They're an insult to the profession. Also, in past experiences I as able to see that the companies that paid l... See more Having read just about all the comments, there's not much I can add here. I did particularly like Hilary Bruce's input, for I feel the same way. However, whenever I see low rates offered, I simply ignore the posting. At the moment, I'm happy with what I charge and I do not accept any less, even if work is scarce at some point. I refuse to "prostitute" myself by accepting rubbishy rates. They're an insult to the profession. Also, in past experiences I as able to see that the companies that paid least were those who demanded most (i.e. more complaints about my translation, a very condescending attitude - they treated me as though they were doing me a favour instead of remembering that agencies would not exist if it were not for translators, but we can exist without the agencies!), etc.
I'm with you Robert!
Kindest,
Margaret ▲ Collapse
| | | | Luca Tutino
Italy
Member (2002)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Why traffic volume concerns are not justified | Oct 16, 2009 |
I do not think that agencies looking for the cheapest translator in the world could do without posting their job on ProZ, i.e. the largest translators database. They would just post their jobs anyway, without mentioning their low rates, and then sift out all bids with higher rates.
On the contrary, I think that this feature will set ProZ even more apart from the competitionThey would just post their jobs anyway, without mentioning their low rates, and then sift out all bids with higher rates.
On the contrary, I think that this feature will set ProZ even more apart from the competition, serious translator will look at ProZ as to the best job posting system, and ProZ's leadership woud be enhanced!
Luca ▲ Collapse
| | | | Eric Hahn (X)
France
Local time: 16:33
French to German
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Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
I have an alternative idea: Just enhance the already existing Blue Board and keep enhancing it with new features until it satisfies most demands. Just add another option in the blue board "Indicate the price range of this agency" and give options "2-4 cents", "5-7 cents", etc etc.
Much easier and more effective.
This is the only indicator that makes sense to me ...
Anyway, those who live in the euro zone can't afford to bid for "jobs", it's as simple as that ...
| | | | | What are we (professional translators) doing here yet? | Oct 17, 2009 |
It is not my intention to start a war, but...
My membership expired a couple of weeks ago. Give me ONE good reason to renew it, and I will!
Kind regards,
María Eugenia
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| I renewed mine in June, but... | Oct 17, 2009 |
I am not motivated anymore.
Some of my posts (absolutely innocent) being squashed, these law rates offered, some of the fora that have become absolutely uninteresting.
Maybe Proz has to change into BeginnerZ?
Now my post will be "removed from public view again" following rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/4#4
Sad.
Have a nice Saturday
... See more I am not motivated anymore.
Some of my posts (absolutely innocent) being squashed, these law rates offered, some of the fora that have become absolutely uninteresting.
Maybe Proz has to change into BeginnerZ?
Now my post will be "removed from public view again" following rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/4#4
Sad.
Have a nice Saturday
Paola ▲ Collapse
| | | | Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 16:33
English to German
+ ...
Luca Tutino wrote:
serious translators will look at ProZ as to the best job posting system, and ProZ's leadership woud be enhanced!
Luca
I am sorry, Luca, ProZ.com is not a job posting system.
It's a platform for *the* translation market. However, *the* translation market does not exist because there are so many markets, even within one country and one specialist field. Serious translators appreciate ProZ.com for the value it offers.
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Gudrun Wolfrath wrote:
And how biased are unfair prices?
what can be an unfair price to you, it might be fair to other people...
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Allow site members/users to rate each job posting | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
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